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Thread: FS: Lovely Conn Double-Bell Euphonium - Restored - ACT FAST

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    ...Leadpipe tuning slides typically are much more sensitive than tuning slides after the valve section. An additional 1" of tubing near the leadpipe may have the same affect as 1.5" of tubing further on. In my experimentation with leadpipe length, I found a 1" extender at the receiver = 2x1" in ferrules at the tuning slide (i.e. 2" of tubing)...Doug
    Okay, I guess I need a lesson here. If a euphonium is about 9 feet in length, then it would seem to me that an inch or two taken from or added to "anywhere" along the journey from mouthpiece receiver/leadpipe to the bell of the horn would have the same effect, no matter where this increase or decrease in length occurred. Please educate me.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  2. Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    Okay, I guess I need a lesson here. If a euphonium is about 9 feet in length, then it would seem to me that an inch or two taken from or added to "anywhere" along the journey from mouthpiece receiver/leadpipe to the bell of the horn would have the same effect, no matter where this increase or decrease in length occurred. Please educate me.
    I am not sure of the exact physics of this, but in a conical instrument, as the bore grows larger, the effect on pitch of additional tubing changes. I can report my experience that 1" at the leadpipe equals 2" at the tuning slide based on experimentation when I put a new leadpipe on a Sovereign 967 and was messing with pitch.

    Doug
    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HGS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sacramento, CA area
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by RickF View Post
    John, you crack my up. I remember when I got my new M5050 it cost me extra as I needed to get my wife a new sewing machine. Happy wife = happy life.
    Maybe a trifle off topic here, but.... Come on you guys (tease).... As someone who happens to resemble this remark (a wife and a horn player), I would like to say that I do not like to win my battles that way. I should not get my way simply because someone is trying to keep me happy, because they are trying to keep the peace ("Happy wife = happy life.).

    - Sara
    Baritone - 3 Valve, Compensating, JinBao JBBR1240

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,409
    I was teasing too Sara. My wife that I've been married to now for 50 years is very understanding. The 'happy wife' remark was tongue in cheek - that's why I used a smiley face.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (on long-term loan to grandson)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    Russian Christmas Music (Alfred Reed)
    El Relicario (Jose Padilla; arr. R. Longfield)

  5. #15
    I have found another Conn double bell front action 4 valve for sale that is from the early 1910's. The tuning slide on this one looks like a for real low pitch instrument. I agree with Doug that the one at the top of this post is indeed, probably a high pitch version that has had a different main tuning slide added to lower the pitch. Not sure if anything was done with the individual valve slides.

    I think I would really need to play this horn to check it out totally before spending any hard earned retirement funds. It is still there, so it has unbecome a "hot item" in my opinion. If someone wanted to actually buy this horn for their everyday playing in a band, then I do think it would be wise to check it out first. I have asked the seller if they would let me check it out in person, if I am not satisfied, I would pay shipping both ways. I will see what they say, I doubt they will do it, though.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  6. #16
    I hate always being the negative nancy, but someone needs to say it.

    This is a Double Bell Baritone. Probably a 75-I. It would have come with both HP and LP tuning slides. The receiver has clearly been replaced, thank goodness, but still. I don't care how nice it looks. This is not going to be an instrument that plays well. I've got an Artist era 64-I and it's an absolute dog. If you spend $2000 on this expecting to play it in an ensemble, you'll be crawling back to your Euphonium in less than a month.
    Last edited by notaverygoodname; 05-01-2021 at 12:21 AM. Reason: typo
    Hobbyist. Collector. Oval rotary guy. Unpaid shill for Josef Klier mouthpieces.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by notaverygoodname View Post
    I hate always being the negative nancy, but someone needs to say it.


    This is a Double Bell Baritone. Probably a 75-I. It would have come with both HP and LP tuning slides. The receiver has clearly been replaced, thank goodness, but still. I don't care how nice it looks. This is not going to be an instrument that plays well. I've got an Artist era 64-I and it's an absolute dog. If you spend $2000 on this expecting to play it in an ensemble, you'll be crawling back to your Euphonium in less than a month.

    I think you're missing the point a bit. First, this is not a baritone in the British sense of the word. It is a small euphonium. With any of these American-style euphoniums, you would indeed be disappointed if you expect them to play the same as even an inexpensive modern euphonium like the ACB or Wessex models we have discussed in depth.

    My own DB is in great shape, was built to standard pitch from the get-go, and is a respected brand of American brass makers. But it is compromised from the standard non-DB model of the same vintage by having the weight and bore disruption of the added valve. The 2nd partial is quite flat, for one thing, which was not the case on other single-bell Holtons I have played.

    I love having it and using it for a novelty. It's effect on the audience is dramatic simply because of the novelty of its appearance (one person said it reminded him of a two-headed cow he saw at the carnival). And I have managed to create a few effects on it that are not possible on my Adams. Here are some examples:

    https://youtu.be/Izufz3geg-w

    https://youtu.be/Ljo0j2tQ2VU

    https://youtu.be/Z_ivqhjyAAs

    https://youtu.be/fneakYq2FYU

    So to me, that stuff is why I have it. Not once in my Coast Guard Band days was I tempted to use it in the section as a regular instrument, but that's OK - I had a good regular instrument! I would not recommend anyone buy a horn like this as their primary horn.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    I think you're missing the point a bit. First, this is not a baritone in the British sense of the word. It is a small euphonium. With any of these American-style euphoniums, you would indeed be disappointed if you expect them to play the same as even an inexpensive modern euphonium like the ACB or Wessex models we have discussed in depth.

    My own DB is in great shape, was built to standard pitch from the get-go, and is a respected brand of American brass makers. But it is compromised from the standard non-DB model of the same vintage by having the weight and bore disruption of the added valve. The 2nd partial is quite flat, for one thing, which was not the case on other single-bell Holtons I have played.

    I love having it and using it for a novelty. It's effect on the audience is dramatic simply because of the novelty of its appearance (one person said it reminded him of a two-headed cow he saw at the carnival). And I have managed to create a few effects on it that are not possible on my Adams. Here are some examples:

    https://youtu.be/Izufz3geg-w

    https://youtu.be/Ljo0j2tQ2VU

    https://youtu.be/Z_ivqhjyAAs

    https://youtu.be/fneakYq2FYU

    So to me, that stuff is why I have it. Not once in my Coast Guard Band days was I tempted to use it in the section as a regular instrument, but that's OK - I had a good regular instrument! I would not recommend anyone buy a horn like this as their primary horn.
    I think a big +1 to your discussion and thoughts, Dave. Double bells have always intrigued me, and I have wanted one forever. But I am really picky and persnickety so that has ruled out most of the ones I see for sale. The one you posted at the top of this thread does indeed look nice, and I spoke with the folks who have it now and are selling it (a music store/repair shop selling it for a client). I spoke with a trumpet player who is a repair technician there, and he told me that he has perfect pitch, and he said the DB will play in tune (basically). I am sure it won't be perfect, but I am not looking for that. And I also would never substitute the DB for my Adams in a band or wind ensemble. This would be a horn I would use on special occasions, as a novelty, perhaps part of a small recital, things like that. It could be during a band concert, but only as a special piece. The New Horizons Band I am in plays for several schools each year and mostly for kids of elementary or junior high age. This audience would get a big kick out of the double bell I am certain.

    I am still pondering this horn and have approached the sellers with some ideas, but I may lose out if I don't act soon. We shall see.
    Last edited by John Morgan; 05-01-2021 at 12:33 PM.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    I think you're missing the point a bit. First, this is not a baritone in the British sense of the word. It is a small euphonium. With any of these American-style euphoniums, you would indeed be disappointed if you expect them to play the same as even an inexpensive modern euphonium like the ACB or Wessex models we have discussed in depth.
    I am well aware of the difference between the Baritone Saxhorn, the British Baritone Horn, and the Euphonium. I own examples (multiple) of all three. There is a difference between a "Baritone" and a "Baritone Horn". Furthermore, associating this thing with American Euphoniums, like the 50-I and 30-I, is an insult to the Euphoniums. A hooped out 20-I will run circles around any Baritone.

    The Baritone (Saxhorn) is not a good instrument. It requires a tiny mouthpiece, is incredibly stuffy to play, and doesn't particularly sound that good. You're not going to shove a 6.5AL in this thing and be off to the races. You're going to try stuff like the 40B until you give up.
    Hobbyist. Collector. Oval rotary guy. Unpaid shill for Josef Klier mouthpieces.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by notaverygoodname View Post
    I am well aware of the difference between the Baritone Saxhorn, the British Baritone Horn, and the Euphonium.
    Out of curiosity, in which category would you put my 1935-ish Holton DB?

    And for clarity, are you saying the item listed here is a "Baritone Saxhorn"?
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

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