Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 44

Thread: Besson Prestige (Gold Lacquer) review/experience

  1. #21
    Before I switched to Adams euphoniums I played a Sterling Virtuoso. The Sterling had a floating leadpipe. The Adams has a soldered leadpipe. Conventional wisdom says that a floating pipe frees the response but takes away a bit of the tone's solidity. That doesn't match my experience with these 2 horns. When I first considered switching to Adams I made an extensive A/B recording and had several trusted colleagues listen to the unidentified comparison. Most liked the Adams, but they all said the two were very close in sound. In playing, I found the Adams had a freer response and one of my colleagues noted that the Adams horn gave me more freedom of expression in one place (not know which horn it was).

    So that little test would knock holes in the conventional wisdom I mentioned. However, I was comparing two different brands, which introduces all kinds of other variables. (The one consistency is that my Sterling and the Adams used the same valve set, which has an effect on how a horn plays). My conclusions are:

    1. My tests don't totally disprove the conventional wisdom because of the other variables. I believe a floating leadpipe would respond more freely, based only on logic. Whether that would have a good or bad effect on tone...I can't rely on logic to say one way or the other.

    2. Because of other variables between brands, or even models within the same brand, I would not "go shopping" for a horn with a floating leadpipe.

    In other areas where I had some experience/expertise, like shoes, cars, and stereo gear, for the most part you needed to go by the total result, not by the presence of a feature that "should" improve things. It's the same for horns. I don't personally care how my leadpipe is affixed to the bell - I just want the horn to make it easier for me to get the result I want out into the room.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  2. #22
    Agreed.

    I think if you played two examples of the same model side by side, you'd notice a difference. Obviously Besson has decided that for this model they want to build it with a fully floating lead pipe for some reason.

    Otherwise, just picking a horn that makes it easy to be "you" on the horn is where it's at.

    I fully recognize I'm too darn fiddly.

    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post

    <SNIP>

    1. My tests don't totally disprove the conventional wisdom because of the other variables. I believe a floating leadpipe would respond more freely, based only on logic. Whether that would have a good or bad effect on tone...I can't rely on logic to say one way or the other.

    2. Because of other variables between brands, or even models within the same brand, I would not "go shopping" for a horn with a floating leadpipe.

    In other areas where I had some experience/expertise, like shoes, cars, and stereo gear, for the most part you needed to go by the total result, not by the presence of a feature that "should" improve things. It's the same for horns. I don't personally care how my leadpipe is affixed to the bell - I just want the horn to make it easier for me to get the result I want out into the room.
    Mike Taylor

    Illinois Brass Band
    Fox Valley Brass Band

  3. #23
    They couldn't be bothered to look at the valves before shipping the horn to you? On a horn they've had since December? Why does this seem prevalent throughout the industry? So many mfg miss easy to fix QC issues and don't bother putting in that extra TLC. Quite clearly that valve has issues, it's pretty egregious that it even shipped.
    Adams E3 0.6 with SS Bell
    K&G 3.5D
    ---------------------------------
    Founder and Solo Euphonium
    San Francisco Brass Band

  4. #24
    Yeah, it seems like a QC issue for sure.

    Same thing happened with the Miraphone I had with this issue. To Thomann's credit, they came back to me within 24 hours with a proposed resolution, up to and including replacing the instrument. Not so with the miraphone - twice, the dealer told me "this is normal; nothing to see here". It took me sidestepping the dealer and using a backdoor contact at Miraphone to get it resolved.

    You're right - too prevalent in the industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeGuilbo View Post
    They couldn't be bothered to look at the valves before shipping the horn to you? On a horn they've had since December? Why does this seem prevalent throughout the industry? So many mfg miss easy to fix QC issues and don't bother putting in that extra TLC. Quite clearly that valve has issues, it's pretty egregious that it even shipped.
    Mike Taylor

    Illinois Brass Band
    Fox Valley Brass Band

  5. There are important differences between the floating leadpipe on the standard Prestige, new gold lacquer Prestige, current Sovereign, Adams, and Sterling Virtuoso. The Sovereign's leadpipe wraps further around the bell such that the horn can be held closer to the performer's body. The Prestige, Adams, and Sterling all have straighter leadpipe angle allowing the elbow to be held higher and the hand to be in a position more similar to a 3 valve cornet. Further:


    1. The Adams has a soldered leadpipe that is directly attached to the bell as well as to the valve body and receiver brace. This is similar to Besson New Standard and earlier models of Sovereign (mid-1970s to early 1990s).
    2. The Sovereign and gold lacquer Prestige have floating leadipes only attached at the valve body ferrule and the receiver brace.
    3. The standard Prestige and the Sterling Virtuoso have floating leadpipes attached at the valvebody, receiver brace, and a mid-point standoff as well.


    Doug
    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HGS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA, USA
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post

    1. The Adams has a soldered leadpipe that is directly attached to the bell as well as to the valve body and receiver brace. This is similar to Besson New Standard and earlier models of Sovereign (mid-1970s to early 1990s).
    2. The Sovereign and gold lacquer Prestige have floating leadipes only attached at the valve body ferrule and the receiver brace.
    3. The standard Prestige and the Sterling Virtuoso have floating leadpipes attached at the valvebody, receiver brace, and a mid-point standoff as well.

    Doug
    Thanks for this!
    I was on the verge of googling for the answer, but skeptical that I'd get useful information.

  7. #27
    After a few days of playing the horn, Im noticing that the concert Bb (on top of the bass clef) seems flat relative to both Bbs an octave either direction. That one seems strange to me.

  8. #28
    There's a cool podcast that these two guys in Berlin do, it's called the "Best Ever Brass Instrument Makers Podcast." I think I have the details of this sort of right... They told a story about how when B&S was in East Germany Mr. Tucci and Mr. Perantoni would come visit to select the best tubas to be branded "Perantucci" and exported, leaving the rejects for the local players in East Germany. Some of the factory workers got together with the local teacher at the conservatory to sabotage the best instruments by intentionally misaligning the valves. These ones wouldn't play well for the play test and would not get exported, then it would be a simple fix to put them right again. Seems one of them slipped through and was never put right and one of these tubas came into the shop years and years later with the player complaining it was stuffy. Lo and behold, one VERY misaligned valve.
    --
    Barry

  9. #29
    I appreciate the hilarity of that!

    Quote Originally Posted by bbocaner View Post
    There's a cool podcast that these two guys in Berlin do, it's called the "Best Ever Brass Instrument Makers Podcast." I think I have the details of this sort of right... They told a story about how when B&S was in East Germany Mr. Tucci and Mr. Perantoni would come visit to select the best tubas to be branded "Perantucci" and exported, leaving the rejects for the local players in East Germany. Some of the factory workers got together with the local teacher at the conservatory to sabotage the best instruments by intentionally misaligning the valves. These ones wouldn't play well for the play test and would not get exported, then it would be a simple fix to put them right again. Seems one of them slipped through and was never put right and one of these tubas came into the shop years and years later with the player complaining it was stuffy. Lo and behold, one VERY misaligned valve.

  10. Hello Mike,

    I was wondering if you had any update for us on the new Gold Lacquer Besson Prestige 2052-2 Euphonium?

    Best Wishes,

    Micah Dominic Parsons

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •