Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 47

Thread: HBC Impressions

  1. Dave Weden

    Noticing that the weight/size of the full size HBC is quite a bit more than the Sterling heavy cap, I just put a message into Chris to see if I could get an Adams/Sterling HBC and insert in gold plate. This would match either of my horns and be an interesting experiment for me. Right now I am using the Sterling 1/2 weight on my Sterling and the Sterling full weight on my Adams.

    Doug
    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HGS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  2. #12
    I can confirm that Yamaha (at least the 642 Neo) has the same thread as a Sterling Virtuoso. Me and my section mate swapped 4th valve caps a few weeks ago, as he let me test out the Sterling heavy cap.


    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    Dave, good question. Threads are different based on brand and when the horn was built. Older English Besson are not the same as newer Besson. Older Sterling, Willson, Adams, and probably Hirschbrunner are the same because they are all based on the Bauerfeind valveset that they all used at one time. Newer Sterling used a different valveset and I do not know if the thread and diameter are the same. I also suspect that Yamaha is different from all of the above. The folks at HBC can give advice, I am sure.

    Doug
    "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

    Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
    Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

    https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
    https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NYC metro area
    Posts
    400
    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    Dean,

    On a compensating euphonium, air flow passes through the 4th valve casing whether you use it or not. If you push down the 4th valve, it passes through twice. The theory is that the large weight at the end of the 4th valve lowers the harmonic frequency at which it will resonate, thus stabilizing the response of the horn.

    Doug
    Thank you, Doug. Makes sense to the junior-boy scientist in me.
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1, Kadja, and DE 101XTG9 mouthpieces
    Bach 36B trombone; pBone; Vincent Bach (from 1971) 6.5AL mouthpiece
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo) and Delilah (the cavapoo puppy) keep me company while practicing

  4. #14
    Hello from us at HBC here in Blighty!

    As players and as engineers, it's been rivetingly interesting over the years to measure the threads for all the Euphoniums we make 4th HBCs for. To calculate the thread for each instrument, we measured the thread pitch, real pitch, crest flat, crest radius maximum, root radius, thread depth, flank length, major diameter, minor diameter and pitch diameter. The final calculation involves modifying those dimensions to cater for the 24 microns (μm) of silver plate we apply to each 4th HBC and from this, the thread can be cut and HBCs electro-plated. 1 mincon = 0.001 mm or in Imperial 0.00003937". God bless the Zeus Engineering Handbook - invaluable!

    There are currently eleven Euphonium Brands that we make 4th HBCs for, with these Brands being sub-divided into various Models of Adams, Besson, Boosey & Co., Boosey & Hawkes, Geneva, Hirsbrunner, John Packer, Sterling, Wessex, Willson and Yamaha. Within the Brands/Models there are also sub-divisions of thread size; for example there are no less than three different threads for the current Besson range, with the Prestige 2051 being different to the Prestige 2052. Equally so the Yamaha Professional and Neo Models have a different thread to the Custom.

    There's no surprise of course that most Chinese manufacturers like Jinbao copied the Bauerfeind valve group dimensions for Euphoniums and other brass instruments, as evidenced through our thread measuring of their instruments.

    An astonishing find was that from 1923 to 1994+, the Boosey & Co/Boosey & Hawkes 4th Euphonium thread remained the same! We measured a Boosey & Co Class A Solbron Imperial Euphonium serial number 112137 made in November 1923 and not only was it the same as a 1982 Boosey & Hawkes "Round Stamp Globe" Sovereign but as a 1994 Edgware production Besson Sovereign too! Obviously in 1923 it was an Imperial thread and the same dimensions used through to 1994/possibly a bit beyond (sensible engineering). ISO metric threads then took-over with German production of Besson.

    We also make 3rd HBCs for Sopranos, Cornets, Flugel Horns (3rd & 4th) and Tenor Horns, varyingly for Adams, Bach, B&S, Besson, Boosey & Hawkes, Couesnon, Courtois, Eclipse, Geneva, John Packer, Schilke, Sterling, Stomvi, Taylor and Yamaha. 'twas the same calculation process for each, so we now have a very detailed database of virtually all casing/bottom cap thread dimensions. It's taken years, but has been and continues to be great fun and we feel we're helping fellow brass musicians worldwide. High quality and good customer service are our cornerstones. It won't make us rich and that's not the object of the exercise, but we're helping - and that's the object of the exercise.

    In development are HBCs for Baritones (a REAL challenge due to the minimal gap between the lower face of the standard bottom cap and the pipework) and for Tubas.

    Hope all this helps.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20200904_0001.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	97.7 KB 
ID:	7942


  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Waters View Post
    Hello from us at HBC here in Blighty!
    This forum needs a *like* button.

    D
    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  6. Have ordered one for the Tenor Horn.
    Will report back.
    Gutted my Euph purchase was a lemon but the Tenor Horn has been fun all summer long.
    Last edited by Shawn; 09-04-2020 at 08:51 AM. Reason: typo

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Waters View Post
    Hello from us at HBC here in Blighty!

    As players and as engineers, it's been rivetingly interesting over the years to measure the threads for all the Euphoniums we make 4th HBCs for. To calculate the thread for each instrument, we measured the thread pitch, real pitch, crest flat, crest radius maximum, root radius, thread depth, flank length, major diameter, minor diameter and pitch diameter. The final calculation involves modifying those dimensions to cater for the 24 microns (μm) of silver plate we apply to each 4th HBC and from this, the thread can be cut and HBCs electro-plated. 1 mincon = 0.001 mm or in Imperial 0.00003937". God bless the Zeus Engineering Handbook - invaluable!

    There are currently eleven Euphonium Brands that we make 4th HBCs for, with these Brands being sub-divided into various Models of Adams, Besson, Boosey & Co., Boosey & Hawkes, Geneva, Hirsbrunner, John Packer, Sterling, Wessex, Willson and Yamaha. Within the Brands/Models there are also sub-divisions of thread size; for example there are no less than three different threads for the current Besson range, with the Prestige 2051 being different to the Prestige 2052. Equally so the Yamaha Professional and Neo Models have a different thread to the Custom.

    There's no surprise of course that most Chinese manufacturers like Jinbao copied the Bauerfeind valve group dimensions for Euphoniums and other brass instruments, as evidenced through our thread measuring of their instruments.

    An astonishing find was that from 1923 to 1994+, the Boosey & Co/Boosey & Hawkes 4th Euphonium thread remained the same! We measured a Boosey & Co Class A Solbron Imperial Euphonium serial number 112137 made in November 1923 and not only was it the same as a 1982 Boosey & Hawkes "Round Stamp Globe" Sovereign but as a 1994 Edgware production Besson Sovereign too! Obviously in 1923 it was an Imperial thread and the same dimensions used through to 1994/possibly a bit beyond (sensible engineering). ISO metric threads then took-over with German production of Besson.

    We also make 3rd HBCs for Sopranos, Cornets, Flugel Horns (3rd & 4th) and Tenor Horns, varyingly for Adams, Bach, B&S, Besson, Boosey & Hawkes, Couesnon, Courtois, Eclipse, Geneva, John Packer, Schilke, Sterling, Stomvi, Taylor and Yamaha. 'twas the same calculation process for each, so we now have a very detailed database of virtually all casing/bottom cap thread dimensions. It's taken years, but has been and continues to be great fun and we feel we're helping fellow brass musicians worldwide. High quality and good customer service are our cornerstones. It won't make us rich and that's not the object of the exercise, but we're helping - and that's the object of the exercise.

    In development are HBCs for Baritones (a REAL challenge due to the minimal gap between the lower face of the standard bottom cap and the pipework) and for Tubas.
    Very interesting read, thank you!

    Very curious indeed that Besson has several different thread sizes, even within one model range. You would expect manufacturing would be easier if there's only one size throughout the entire range, especially seeing that they had the same threads for 70 years when they were still B&H!

    I'm interested to see your solution for the baritone HBC, although there should be no problem for the old New Standard/Imperials, seeing as the tubing wraps in a way that leaves space underneath the 3rd valve.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NYC metro area
    Posts
    400
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Waters View Post
    [snip]
    There's no surprise of course that most Chinese manufacturers like Jinbao copied the Bauerfeind valve group dimensions for Euphoniums and other brass instruments, as evidenced through our thread measuring of their instruments. [snip]
    Does that mean you have one that will fit my Mack Brass euphonium (made by JinBao)?
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1, Kadja, and DE 101XTG9 mouthpieces
    Bach 36B trombone; pBone; Vincent Bach (from 1971) 6.5AL mouthpiece
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo) and Delilah (the cavapoo puppy) keep me company while practicing

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Near Bonn, Germany
    Posts
    6
    I bought one for my Thomann JinBao today after Chris confirmed the thread size. I measured 28,85 (or was it 27,85), which probably translates to 29 mm and a 0,8 mm pitch.

  10. #20
    Thanks for your HBC order and it'll be in the post today. Will forward the Post Office Tracking Number by e-mail.

    All the blighty best,

    HBC
    Last edited by Chris Waters; 09-09-2020 at 02:33 AM. Reason: Wrong thread originally

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •