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Thread: C Euphoniums

  1. #11
    I had one of those for a week. Everything bad they say about them is true

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sacramento, CA area
    Posts
    220

    Just to be clear

    Just to be clear, did the problem sound characteristics have anything to do with the rotary valves or the way the horn was wrapped/constructed? I have been wondering about the rotary euphoniums I have been seeing, mostly on Ebay. Never in an actual music store. To my eye, this instrument looks like a lot of other JinBao horns. I would feel more comfortable with someone else actually saying so.
    - Sara
    Baritone - 3 Valve, Compensating, JinBao JBBR1240

  3. #13
    nothing wrong with a good rotary euph, it's the taper and intonation of this one that is out of whack

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    805
    At best used as a solo horn. Essentially that would be an orphan, gathering dust between uses.

    In a section with other euphs, usually Blaikley pattern compensators, the partials never line up with rotor euphs.

    Been there, tried that, several different examples.

    As Dave said, learn to work a good Bb horn.

    DDG
    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,048
    Didn't we have a thread here a while ago involving someone in Portugal who turned out in fact to be playing a C euphonium? http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...C#.WwcUwUgvyUk.

    Some are also mentioned here: http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...tone-Euphonium.

    In any event, it is almost certainly easier/quicker/cheaper to just get a standard (Bb) euphonium and learn the fingerings -- isn't it?
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (Denis Wick 3XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba, modified Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  6. #16
    Up until last year, Crocus Plains Highschool in Brandon had a 4 front action valve Bb tuba which had a set of slides which converted it to a C tuba. I can't remember the brand of it. The person who bought it is a really good tuba player who graduated from Crocus Plains Highschool a few years ago.

    I can't really see any reason for a C euphonium or a C / Bb euphonium.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,048
    Having two (or sometimes more!) sets of slides to affect the pitch of a brass instrument was quite popular in the early 20th century. Sometimes this was an approach to handling both "high pitch" and "low pitch" tuning, and sometimes it was used to change tuning from something like Bb to A. It seems that it worked pretty well for trumpets and cornets. There were even some trumpets/cornets that had a special large rotary valve "built in" that you could "throw" to change the fundamental tuning (it wasn't changed while playing, but as a "configuration" change prior to playing).

    However, as Barry has already remarked, the use of multiple slide sets in large conical bore instruments is at best dicey since it tends to induce changes in where acoustic "nodes" occur in the tubing, and so changes intonation characteristics that are more pronounced in conical instruments.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (Denis Wick 3XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba, modified Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  8. #18
    Thanks for the historical perspective, Gary. I was thinking about this yesterday. I believe the only semi-good solution would be for a horn that would be mostly used in C but sometimes needed in Bb. So a quality C design would have to be built, with a focus on C from that get-go. Then a set of Bb slides could be included. Those would present the compromised version, since the introduce longer runs of cylindrical tubing. That might be acceptable for the use I described.

    The two reasons this has not happened yet, as far as I know, include:

    1) There are no quality C euphs right now, so you would be dealing with intonation and response issues with no good background of experience. But there is no reason it could not be done with sufficient R&D. That would be costly, and hard to amortize in what is bound to be a very limited marketplace.
    2) Euphoniums have their most common home in bands, but band music is mostly made with the preponderance of instruments in Bb, F, and Eb. So flat keys are pretty common in the music. When euphoniums play in Ab the "natural" key relative to a standard euphonium is Bb (2 flats). But when playing that music with a C instrument the instrument-relative key is Ab (4 flats). I recall our tuba players complaining about that now and then if they used CC tubas.

    At least, those are my theories.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,048
    There just doesn't seem to be a market for this sort of thing. While one might argue (on fairly esoteric grounds, I think, but that's just an opinion) on the value of a C euphonium as compared to a Bb, this doesn't establish the "need" or even the desireability of a "convertible" Bb/C euphonium. And the market for a "quality" C euphonium has to be very restricted. It's not at all like the market for the variety of F/Eb/CC/BBb tubas, for example.

    The fact of the matter is that the vast preponderance of the people who might be in the potential marketplace for such a thing appears to be tuba players. And tuba players (almost universally) tend not to have any objection to just learning a different set of fingerings. Most already double on (Bb) euphonium, whether they normally play a BBb, CC, Eb, or F tuba. And any professional, or even advanced amateur player either has a couple of tubas in different keys or has at least played tubas in two or three different keys. It's part of being a tuba player. People who have CC tubas often have (for one of several reasons) F tubas, for example, and (as I say) almost everyone doubles on euphonium to one degree or another.

    While acknowledging a kind of "convenience" argument for a C euphonium (for the sub-population of CC tuba players who play only CC tuba and don't want to learn different fingerings), I think that market has to be very small -- especially given the likely relative cost of the "quality" C euphonium.

    On further investigation, Amati does appear to have two C euphoniums (the AEP 232 AV-C, which looks like a tweak on their 231 Bb horn, and the AEP 235 C, which may be a tweak on their 233 Bb horn). But it's not clear how available these are. And many would not regard an Amati as a "quality" euphonium.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (Denis Wick 3XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba, modified Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  10. #20
    The difference between high pitch and low pitch is less than a half step, but the difference between Bb and C is a whole step. And, anyone who has played a HP instrument which has been extended to A440 can tell you they NEVER play as well that way.
    --
    Barry

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