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Thread: Besson Euponium 1965 ??

  1. Besson Euponium 1965 ??

    Hi, just acquired a Silver Besson Euphonium and would like to get some additional info on it if possible... Ser number is 411xxx so i believe that places it around 1965ish.. It is a 5 valve, which i believe makes it a compensating, with an 11 inch bell, 40 inches long. Fortunately everything works and nothing is stuck. Cleaned up really well. Also the mouthpiece bore measures .433 inches... I need an mouthpiece and would like to know if the Bach 6-1/2AL LARGE BORE fits this one... From my reading this era instrument used a 'European size' and the sites claim this will fit... They give bore sizes on mouthpieces but I think they are inside dimensions. Any help further id-ing this instrument would be grateful.. Just turned 70 and I am thinking of taking some lessons on this, played trumpet in my youth. Also should I be thinking of insurance on this..I know nothing of the real value..got it really cheap. It's in beautiful shape with no dents only small dings in inconsequential areas. Thanks for any help. I will try to attach pix.. don't know if it will work... first time..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails P1020771.JPG   P1020770.JPG  

  2. #2
    It appears you have a mouthpiece adapter in the leadpipe. The extra "flange" at the very end is the clue. See if you can coax that out. They are a press-fit (no threads), but is is generally necessary to turn it to remove it. If so, the adapter is probably made to accept a tenor-trombone-size mouthpiece (small mouthpiece shank, like an old American bell-front euph would use, or the Yamaha 321). Knowing if I am right about that will help clear up some confusion. The adapters were usually built to go from the medium (European) shank to a standard tenor-trombone shank.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. Your horn is a 4 valve (not 5) Besson New Standard of 1965 vintage. Dave correctly states that you have the factory tenor shank adapter in this horn. The best way to get that adapter out (short of having a technician remove it) is to put a tenor shank mouthpiece in, seat it firmly, and then gently wiggle the mouthpiece and adapter side to side (DO NOT twist vigorously). If you can loosen that adapter a bit, you should be able to then lightly twist and remove. If this does not work, have a technician remove the adapter for you. Indeed, this is a medium "EURO" shank horn (same as a Willson 2900). Bach does not manufacture a mouthpiece that will fit. If you want to use a 6 1/2AL, then use the adapter. Otherwise, you will need to use a Wick mouthpiece like a Wick 4AM to 6AM or SM4M - SM6M, etc. Schilke and DEG (BB1) are alkso available in medium shank. Doug Elliot makes his line with medium shank adapters as well. Doug
    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HGS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  4. #4
    This page shows a list of the mouthpieces that can be had with the medium shank:

    http://www.dwerden.com/Mouthpieces/t...Euro&compare=0
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. Congrats from another NS owner! Mine is a large shank NS. Don't let anyone ever convince you to change your shank. Euro shank is a statement of the times. Your horn is a classic so take care of her and play her to make us all proud!
    Last edited by tampaworth; 07-09-2013 at 06:42 PM.
    Bob Tampa FL USA
    Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
    Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim

  6. Nice, congrats! I have a 1971 Besson that I have had since new, which also takes medium shank. For what it is worth, I would recommend getting a medium shank mouthpiece that fits rather than using the adapter with a small shank mp. Most of us (myself included) end up with a small mp collection before we find out what works best, but I think it is worth it.

  7. Thanks guys, it was an adapter, came out easily with a rubber guard and a pliers.. Looked so original I would never have suspected. I ordered a Denis Wick 4AM and 6BM to try.. any suggestions which would be better to start out and why would be appreciated... I get to return the other.. Not a lot of selection in medium My only experience is with a trumpet.. Sorry about the '5 valve' detail, I got stupid, a senior moment, when writing the blog as I certainly knew it was a 4 valve having just dismanteled and cleaned the whole thing.. Can anyone give me any details further about this instrument as far as model, rareity or general value. I kind of figured it was a 'Standard Model' but don't know if it breaks down into name or number after that. Would the value on this be enough that i should insure it or is it rather common, seems this instruments, especially new ones, go very high but I don't know about older ones and haven't seem much to give me a clue. Seem to be in very good shape for its age. THANKS TO ALL FOR THE COMMENTS, I REALLY APPRECIATE THE HELP. RON

  8. They typically sell for between 800-2000 depending on condition. Restored/perfect condition ones can go up to 3000ish.
    Christopher Chen
    bolded are for sale
    B&H 967 - Globe Stamp
    B&H 960 (3 valve comp euph) - Globe Stamp
    Salvation Army Triumphonic Eb Alto, silver plated


    On the lookout for:
    Silver plated:
    pre '93, post '06 Sovereign Alto/Tenor Horn
    pre '93, post '06 Sovereign Baritone (3 valve)

    York/Sterling/LMI variants accepted

  9. Quote Originally Posted by ronstuba View Post
    ... I ordered a Denis Wick 4AM and 6BM to try.. any suggestions which would be better to start out and why would be appreciated... I get to return the other.. .....Would the value on this be enough that i should insure it or is it rather common, seems this instruments, especially new ones, go very high but I don't know about older ones and haven't seem much to give me a clue. Seem to be in very good shape for its age....
    If you were considering a Bach 6 1/2AL, then the Wick 6BM is closer in size/shape to the Bach. The 6BM is still larger and more open than a 6 1/2AL. If your chops and air are good, then the horn will sound fantastic with the 4AM (which would be my choice). As regards value, this horn looks very nice. I did notice a few dings in the bell and bow, but they look minor from your pictures. If the valves are in real good shape (tight and with good guides), there are no leaks elsewhere, the horn has good felts and corks, and the innards are as clean as the outside, then this horn should be in the upper end of the typical range for a vintage New Standard. I would guess $2000-$2500 or so. What is more important is that good examples of this horn can be played in any kind of ensemble (brass band, chamber group, solo, wind band) along with the most modern horns and still perform with the best. Phil Franke continues to perform on his 1971 Besson New Standard. Trevor Groom switched to a Sterling when the valves on his New Standard were so worn that the horn no longer played well. Last summer I played a New Standard at Blue Lake Fine Arts and really enjoyed it. If I still had one, I am sure I'd enjoy it a great deal...Doug
    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HGS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  10. A big thing is the pistons. If the nickel plating isnt worn off, the value is quite a lot higher. Wear on the valves of these horns will show up as pitting or brown corrosion spots on the valve pistons.


    somewhat related...did these horns ever end up getting the stainless steel pistons of the Sovereigns?
    Christopher Chen
    bolded are for sale
    B&H 967 - Globe Stamp
    B&H 960 (3 valve comp euph) - Globe Stamp
    Salvation Army Triumphonic Eb Alto, silver plated


    On the lookout for:
    Silver plated:
    pre '93, post '06 Sovereign Alto/Tenor Horn
    pre '93, post '06 Sovereign Baritone (3 valve)

    York/Sterling/LMI variants accepted

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