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FS: 1969 Conn Constellation Euphonium

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  • davewerden
    Administrator
    • Nov 2005
    • 11127

    #16
    Doug, are you saying that Conn made a non-Connstellation euphonium that used a "medium" shank? (I have SO MUCH to learn yet!)
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

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    • jimdd
      Member
      • Feb 2015
      • 44

      #17
      Originally posted by daruby View Post
      Post a picture of your horn. The 4i was a "triggerless" 4 valve horn built by Conn-Selmer in Abilene in the 70s (the Elkhart built 24i disappeared in 1968-70). The valve block and 1-2-3 tuning slides of the 4i are actually based on the King bell front design (AFAIK). The bell and leadpipe are Conn. The 4i and 5i were not around for long and kind of rare.

      As regards mouthpiece, the receiver is just a bit larger than a standard euro-shank so a euro mouthpiece will "bottom out" in the receiver. You can get the euro shank mouthpiece to fit this receiver by filing or cutting off about 1/8" from the end of the mouthpiece. I always just used the adapter and a small shank mouthpiece. My preferred mouthpiece for the 24i was either a Bach 6 1/2 AL, 5G, or Wick 6BM.

      Doug
      Click image for larger version

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      Thanks for any info you can provide. Jim
      Attached Files
      Last edited by jimdd; 03-02-2024, 12:54 PM. Reason: add thank you

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      • bopeuph
        Member
        • Jun 2018
        • 46

        #18
        Wow, I've never even heard of a remington shank!

        Comment

        • RickF
          Moderator
          • Jan 2006
          • 3865

          #19
          Here's some information on the Remington Shank:

          I just happen to see a Remington shank mpc for sale on TubeNet forum here if you're having trouble locating one Jimdd.
          Rick Floyd
          Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
          YEP-641S (recently sold)
          Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


          "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
          Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
          El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
          Chorale and Shaker Dance
          (John Zdechlik)

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          • daruby
            Moderator
            • Apr 2006
            • 2228

            #20
            Please note that the Connstellation receiver is NOT the same as the more well known Conn 88H Remington trombone shank. The receiver on the Connstellation was unique to the 24i and 25i (and perhaps the 4i/5i)
            Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
            Concord Band
            Winchendon Winds
            Townsend Military Band

            Comment

            • daruby
              Moderator
              • Apr 2006
              • 2228

              #21
              Originally posted by davewerden View Post
              Doug, are you saying that Conn made a non-Connstellation euphonium that used a "medium" shank? (I have SO MUCH to learn yet!)
              Dave...I have never played a 4i/5i, but I know they were produced AFTER the 24i/25i production shut down. It is possible that they used the Connstellation leadpipe and shank. If you look at the picture, you will see that the wrap of the valves (including 4th) is different from previous Elkhart Conn horns (14i/20i/24i).

              Doug
              Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
              Concord Band
              Winchendon Winds
              Townsend Military Band

              Comment

              • notaverygoodname
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2019
                • 161

                #22
                The 24I, 25I, 4I, and 5I all use what I call Connstellation Euphonium shank. It is roughly equivalent to Besson medium shank, but not compatible. Actual measurement is 11.8mm @ 1:20. The 4I and 5I use the floated leadpipe, but have less of the heavy bracing, and the brass is inferior to the Connstellation Euphoniums.

                It is not Remington shank, nor related. Remington shank actually existed before they even called it that for the Precision Conn 4 Bass Trombone mouthpiece, and AFAIK for Eb Tubas. Measurement is something like 13mm @ 1:24, or maybe ~12.95mm. I have no way to measure it any closer than that. There was also a medium shank used for Euphoniums in 1:24 taper that I pulled from an Arthur Lehman schematic which is ~11.9mm @ 1:24. I forget what the exact measure was in standard/imperial, but this shank type can be found on some older cheap Indian and Chinese instruments, so it must have an interesting history.

                I have acquired the Precision Conn 4 mouthpiece, a Conn 5I, and the Conn 5 mouthpiece to confirm these measurements.
                Hobbyist. Collector. Oval rotary guy. Unpaid shill for Josef Klier mouthpieces.

                Comment

                • Scotterfoxes
                  Junior Member
                  • Apr 2022
                  • 2

                  #23
                  Still available

                  Comment

                  • jimdd
                    Member
                    • Feb 2015
                    • 44

                    #24
                    I just happen to see a Remington shank mpc for sale on TubeNet forum here if you're having trouble locating one Jimdd.[/QUOTE]


                    I ordered and received a Kelly 5g with medium shank in black as inexpensive experiment. The Kelly inserts 7/8" but when I examine insert marks, the bottom 1/2" shows no markings. The top 3/8" shows wear. My guess is the Euro shank is a sharper taper than the receiver. I compared how this plays vs a 5g large shank Kelly that I had. That large shank only inserts about 3/8 inches and feels unstable. The Euro shank plays pretty well, especially in mid to lower range, however gets a bit stuffy above Bb above staff for me. I wonder how much difference a precise taper would change how this 5G would perform... maybe I just need to be a better player.

                    I'll keep an eye out for some inexpensive used Euro mouthpieces to experiment with around with...... because I'm retired and I can : )

                    Jim

                    Comment

                    • notaverygoodname
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2019
                      • 161

                      #25
                      Originally posted by jimdd View Post
                      I just happen to see a Remington shank mpc for sale on TubeNet forum here if you're having trouble locating one Jimdd.

                      I ordered and received a Kelly 5g with medium shank in black as inexpensive experiment. The Kelly inserts 7/8" but when I examine insert marks, the bottom 1/2" shows no markings. The top 3/8" shows wear. My guess is the Euro shank is a sharper taper than the receiver. I compared how this plays vs a 5g large shank Kelly that I had. That large shank only inserts about 3/8 inches and feels unstable. The Euro shank plays pretty well, especially in mid to lower range, however gets a bit stuffy above Bb above staff for me. I wonder how much difference a precise taper would change how this 5G would perform... maybe I just need to be a better player.

                      I'll keep an eye out for some inexpensive used Euro mouthpieces to experiment with around with...... because I'm retired and I can : )

                      Jim
                      The KELLY 5G is the closest off the shelf part that I know of (haven't tested Schilke or Willson), but you are correct. Proper Besson medium shank is roughly 11.7mm @ 1:19 (probably .460" @ 3 degree cone), rather than 11.8 @ 1:20. Not sure how or why a Besson medium shank mouthpiece makes contact with anything in the Connstellation shank receiver, but I have confirmed this behavior with a Besson 10 and mouthpieces with reverse engineered shanks. Obviously, anything smaller like 11.5mm shank (Bariton Schaft) will yield even worse results. As far as mouthpiece behavior goes, I find that a 5G is basically the biggest thing these horns will take without giving negative feedback. There are an infinite number of players better than me that might be able to get these horns to play well with something bigger, but you should expect difficulty in the high range if you decide to venture into that zone.
                      Last edited by notaverygoodname; 03-16-2024, 12:58 AM. Reason: typo
                      Hobbyist. Collector. Oval rotary guy. Unpaid shill for Josef Klier mouthpieces.

                      Comment

                      • bopeuph
                        Member
                        • Jun 2018
                        • 46

                        #26
                        Every single time this post comes up, I click on it, see the $695 price tag, and am like "hot damn! Don't need it but I'm gonna buy it!"

                        Then I realize it's just an old conversation that keeps popping up.

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