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What Leather Grip Should I get for my Schiller Euphonium?

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  • Joshua W.
    Junior Member
    • Nov 2015
    • 4

    What Leather Grip Should I get for my Schiller Euphonium?

    Recently, I had to take my Schiller Elite IV (4) Compensating Euphonium to a brass technician to get it professionally shined up. He said that I would need to use leather grips in order to prevent this tarnishing and corrosion of the brass plating by buying leather replacement grips for it to go on my Compensating Section, Valve Grip, and 3rd Valve Tuning Slide. However, upon looking around on http://www.lscoguard.com/index.php?m...rt=20a&page=10, and I was unable to find any replacement for my Schiller model. I also emailed the company and asked them to see if there were any replacements for that, and they haven't responded after a week. I have checked my Email and everything from Junk to Spam and they haven't responded.

    I just wonder if anyone here knows exactly what replacements I could get for my model of Euphonium.

    Model: Schiller Elite IV (4) Compensating Euphonium
    Leather Grips Needed: Valve Grip, Right Hand Compensating Section Grip, and 3rd Valve Section Guard.
  • RickF
    Moderator
    • Jan 2006
    • 3871

    #2
    Hi Joshua. Welcome to the forum.

    I have LSCO guards on both of my horns. They work great because there are three layers... leather outside, plastic inside layer to prevent moisture penetration and a soft layer that comes in contact with the horn like Velour. If the Schiller is an EXACT copy of the Yahama 642 LSCO guards for the 642 should fit the Schiller. But by exactly I mean all the braces have to be exactly the same place.

    Larry Black is the owner operator of LSCO and is an excellent trumpet player, so is busy with playing and giving lessons. He is retired from the Atlanta Symphony. I would try sending another email or maybe calling them. I believe his son and wife also work in the shop, but not everyday.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc

    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches

    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    The Cowboys (John Williams, arr. James Curnow)
    Festive Overture (Dmitri Shostakovich)

    Comment

    • tonewheeler
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 460

      #3
      I'll second what Rick has to say and add that they also have a real easy return policy and will customize whatever you need for your specific horn.
      Euphs:
      Miraphone 5050 Ambassador
      Wessex Travel (Tornister) Euphonium 'Maly' ER154
      Yamaha 201 Baritone
      Mp: Wick SM4 Ultra X
      Groups:
      The San Diego Concert Band

      Comment

      • SteveP
        Member
        • Jul 2014
        • 68

        #4
        I emailed them about a week ago too, regarding a grip for a tuba. Haven't heard back yet either. I get a little upset when someone in business doesn't return a call or email. I don't care how busy you are you've got to respond to potential customers in a timely manner.
        Steve Petrangelo
        Lake Havasu Regional Orchestra (trombone/treasurer)

        Comment

        • davewerden
          Administrator
          • Nov 2005
          • 11142

          #5
          Originally posted by SteveP View Post
          I emailed them about a week ago too, regarding a grip for a tuba. Haven't heard back yet either. I get a little upset when someone in business doesn't return a call or email. I don't care how busy you are you've got to respond to potential customers in a timely manner.
          While I agree with your sentiment, it is not realistic (or even fair, probably) in this market. If you are talking about a large company, then it does seem reasonable to expect a timely response. But many of the companies we deal with are one- or two-person shops.

          My own publisher, Cimarron Music, is a one-man shop. But they carry two or three thousand pieces, which include many of our favorites, contest list music, and even recently the old Tuba-Euphonium Press material. But one guy can only do so much, and he often mans the booth at trade shows. Then you have family time and vacations, I'm sure we all hope and understand, included in the competition for his time.

          He, at least, is a business man at heart, so he really works and wearing all the hats smartly. Some of these small companies are run by people who had a good idea and inspiration for a product line, but are not born business people. But I try to be grateful for their contributions to our marketplace. I personally use daily two items from one-person shops - the QHR lap pad (and cleaning tool, when I get ambitious) and the QHR had strap. The latter is dependent on TWO one-person shops: the QHR shop and the woman who actually produces the straps.

          Be patient and persistent. Sometimes emails get lost in the shuffle, so try again. (I just got a call from my sister this afternoon because I forgot to answer her email from a week ago! Good intentions on my part... but bad execution.)
          Dave Werden (ASCAP)
          Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
          Adams Artist (Adams E3)
          Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
          YouTube: dwerden
          Facebook: davewerden
          Twitter: davewerden
          Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

          Comment

          • SteveP
            Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 68

            #6
            Your point is well taken Dave.

            However, the internet has changed the way we do business. When I visit a website I have no way of knowing if that business is a one man shop or a larger, storefront operation that has a website too. In fact, most websites are designed to make a business look large and successful. That is the intent. This business's website is no exception. It gives no indication of the actual "size" of the business or of the number of staff available to serve the customer. It's just a listing of merchandise available for purchase.

            Knowing what I NOW know I'm ready to give them a lot more slack. I had no way of knowing the actual structure or size of the business. Please don't think harshly of me for my expectations. You know these people and what they do etc. I, until now, didn't.

            Steve
            Steve Petrangelo
            Lake Havasu Regional Orchestra (trombone/treasurer)

            Comment

            • dsurkin
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2014
              • 526

              #7
              Originally posted by Joshua W. View Post
              I just wonder if anyone here knows exactly what replacements I could get for my model of Euphonium.

              Model: Schiller Elite IV (4) Compensating Euphonium
              Leather Grips Needed: Valve Grip, Right Hand Compensating Section Grip, and 3rd Valve Section Guard.
              I had sent them photos of my horn (Mack Brass, the same JinBao horn), and they originally recommended grips for a Besson (if I remember correctly). They sent me a set on trial, but it didn't fit. I wound up buying the set for the Yamaha 642, and it fits okay (the leather grip for the third valve slide is difficult to attach, but it is cut to the right pattern).

              I wound up getting the wrist grip from Quick Horn Rinse. http://stores.quickhornrinse.com/ehs...um-hand-strap/. I now use that in place of the leather guard near the fourth valve.
              Dean L. Surkin
              Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1 mouthpiece
              Bach 36B trombone; Bach 6.5AL and Faxx 7C mouthpieces (pBone on loan to granddaughter)
              Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
              See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo; RIP) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

              Comment

              • ChristianeSparkle
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2018
                • 366

                #8
                Originally posted by RickF View Post
                Hi Joshua. Welcome to the forum.

                I have LSCO guards on both of my horns. They work great because there are three layers... leather outside, plastic inside layer to prevent moisture penetration and a soft layer that comes in contact with the horn like Velour. If the Schiller is an EXACT copy of the Yahama 642 LSCO guards for the 642 should fit the Schiller. But by exactly I mean all the braces have to be exactly the same place.

                Larry Black is the owner operator of LSCO and is an excellent trumpet player, so is busy with playing and giving lessons. He is retired from the Atlanta Symphony. I would try sending another email or maybe calling them. I believe his son and wife also work in the shop, but not everyday.
                Just wanted to thank Rick for the explanation on the layers in a hand guard!

                I've tried to DIY my own hand strap, as the shipping from US to my country is more than the price of a hand strap itself. Figured I should try making one myself based on the layers Rick mentioned here. Fingers crossed that the fabric won't scratch the horn or tarnish it. Will be taking the straps out at least once a week just to clean the surfaces covered by the guard and strap.

                Click image for larger version

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                I have to admit, I already have trouble holding a horn as light as a Yamaha EP100 without both my hands and fingers getting strained, I can't imagine how a heavier compensating horn like the Wessex would do to me.
                "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

                Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
                Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

                https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
                https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

                Comment

                • RickF
                  Moderator
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 3871

                  #9
                  Looks good. Hope it works well.
                  Rick Floyd
                  Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc

                  "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
                  Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches

                  El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
                  The Cowboys (John Williams, arr. James Curnow)
                  Festive Overture (Dmitri Shostakovich)

                  Comment

                  • Clayton M.
                    Member
                    • Aug 2018
                    • 92

                    #10
                    I am also working on a DIY solution for my XO 1270. It will be a slow going project.
                    Clayton M.
                    Musician for Fun
                    Euphonium Newbie - XO 1270S
                    Trumpet Novice - XO 1602RS

                    Comment

                    • ChristianeSparkle
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2018
                      • 366

                      #11
                      A band director/tuba player I played with commented that it's better to not use it since it will affect the resonance and response of the horn.

                      So I guess DIY solutions might not always be the best ideas?

                      Wonder if reducing the area being converted by the guard would minimise that. Like I can live without the guard, just need the strap.

                      Anyone has any thoughts about guards and hand strap affecting the response and sound of the horn?
                      "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

                      Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
                      Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

                      https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
                      https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

                      Comment

                      • Clayton M.
                        Member
                        • Aug 2018
                        • 92

                        #12
                        From what I’ve read here, there is agreement that it could affect your horn’s resonance and tone, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
                        Clayton M.
                        Musician for Fun
                        Euphonium Newbie - XO 1270S
                        Trumpet Novice - XO 1602RS

                        Comment

                        • ChristianeSparkle
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2018
                          • 366

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Clayton M. View Post
                          From what I’ve read here, there is agreement that it could affect your horn’s resonance and tone, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
                          Huh, I must have missed that. was scouring through the threads on hand guards but don't recall see that being discussed.

                          So I tried both with and without guards earlier, couldn't really tell the difference myself. But just to be safe, I removed the top guard and kept the one with the strap. Will see what happens during rehearsal over the weekend.
                          "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

                          Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
                          Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

                          https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
                          https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

                          Comment

                          • Clayton M.
                            Member
                            • Aug 2018
                            • 92

                            #14
                            There was a thread I started titled Regarding Guards not too long ago that got some feedback to that effect.
                            Clayton M.
                            Musician for Fun
                            Euphonium Newbie - XO 1270S
                            Trumpet Novice - XO 1602RS

                            Comment

                            • ChristianeSparkle
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2018
                              • 366

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Clayton M. View Post
                              There was a thread I started titled Regarding Guards not too long ago that got some feedback to that effect.
                              Found it, thank you! That was definitely a thread I missed. Then again, I was looking at straps instead of guards.

                              Hmm interesting, so most of the replies said that the difference should be negligible.
                              "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

                              Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
                              Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

                              https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
                              https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

                              Comment

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