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  • Niek_H
    Junior Member
    • Oct 2023
    • 13

    besson imperial euphonium parts

    just bought a besson imperial euphonium 1980 serial number 653490 about 4 months ago and i just got it back from it's first maintenance job since i got it.

    i got it back and they said it has minor leaks in the 1st and 2nd valve. it's nothing to serious but i do prefer to change the valves if possible.

    i asked dawkes music if they still have those valves available but they don't. and i can't seem to find the valves anywhere else.

    i was wondering if someone here knows if i can still get those valves anywhere (secondhand or new)?
    Attached Files
    -besson imperial 1980s
    -JEP 1020
  • davewerden
    Administrator
    • Nov 2005
    • 11137

    #2
    Leaks can have at least a couple causes. The most common is pistons that are worn enough that they no longer do a good job of sealing. A common fix for that is to have the pistons replated and then lapped so they have a perfect fit. That is pretty expensive. Buying 2 new pistons would not eliminate the lapping step.

    But if the leaks are due to pinholes in the inner passages in the piston (the "caucades") then a repair tech could just apply a bit of solder to seal the hole.

    Do you know which of those is the case? Or is it something else entirely?
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

    Comment

    • Niek_H
      Junior Member
      • Oct 2023
      • 13

      #3
      Its the inner part of the piston. (They did a air/ blow test on the pistons)

      The shop that did the maintenance just put some sort of grease (not solder) on it that should help the problem until i bring my euphonium back for maintenance again, but i dont know how i feel about that.

      Arent there any shops that have old spare parts anymore (even if its secondhand)?.
      -besson imperial 1980s
      -JEP 1020

      Comment

      • iMav
        Senior Member
        • May 2011
        • 1322

        #4
        Originally posted by Niek_H View Post
        Arent there any shops that have old spare parts anymore (even if its secondhand)?.
        As Dave alluded to above, the problem is that you can't just drop in new valve pistons.
        Groups
        Valley City Community Band
        Valley City State University Concert Band
        2024 North Dakota Intercollegiate Band (you're never too old!)


        Larry Herzog Jr.

        All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

        Comment

        • Niek_H
          Junior Member
          • Oct 2023
          • 13

          #5
          Ah okay, well that stinks.
          -besson imperial 1980s
          -JEP 1020

          Comment

          • Niek_H
            Junior Member
            • Oct 2023
            • 13

            #6
            Then it might be the best option to get those holes soldered. But i assume that will not be a “permanent” fix to the issue. And i hope that wont be to expensive ofcourse.

            Thanks for the responses.
            -besson imperial 1980s
            -JEP 1020

            Comment

            • TheJH
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2014
              • 339

              #7
              if it's just holes in the tubing inside the pistons, it might be a permanent fix if done well.
              if it's in the piston *walls* ... I believe it's the same story, but might be trickier to do well.
              Euphoniums
              2008 Willson 2960TA Celebration
              1979 Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign (Round Stamp)
              Mouthpiece: Denis Wick SM4
              Baritone
              1975 Besson New Standard
              Mouthpiece: Courtois 10

              Comment

              • iMav
                Senior Member
                • May 2011
                • 1322

                #8
                Originally posted by Niek_H View Post
                Then it might be the best option to get those holes soldered. But i assume that will not be a “permanent” fix to the issue. And i hope that wont be to expensive ofcourse.
                I don’t see why it wouldn’t be a permanent fix. And, I would think that would be relatively inexpensive…
                Groups
                Valley City Community Band
                Valley City State University Concert Band
                2024 North Dakota Intercollegiate Band (you're never too old!)


                Larry Herzog Jr.

                All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

                Comment

                • davewerden
                  Administrator
                  • Nov 2005
                  • 11137

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Niek_H View Post
                  Then it might be the best option to get those holes soldered. But i assume that will not be a “permanent” fix to the issue. And i hope that wont be to expensive ofcourse.

                  Thanks for the responses.
                  As mentioned above, it should be permanent. Don't forget that the entire piston assembly is soldered together from multiple pieces. See this blog post:

                  https://www.dwerden.com/forum/entry....stons-Are-Made

                  Basically, the top and bottom pieces are soldered, and at every port you see there is a solder joint.
                  Dave Werden (ASCAP)
                  Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
                  Adams Artist (Adams E3)
                  Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
                  YouTube: dwerden
                  Facebook: davewerden
                  Twitter: davewerden
                  Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

                  Comment

                  • highpitch
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2006
                    • 1034

                    #10
                    Niek, are you here in the states?

                    If so, you might contact Dan Oberloh in Seattle, WA. He is one of the foremost repair/restoration guys in the US.

                    Dennis

                    Comment

                    • Niek_H
                      Junior Member
                      • Oct 2023
                      • 13

                      #11
                      111
                      Last edited by Niek_H; 02-14-2024, 04:52 AM.
                      -besson imperial 1980s
                      -JEP 1020

                      Comment

                      • Niek_H
                        Junior Member
                        • Oct 2023
                        • 13

                        #12
                        Originally posted by davewerden View Post
                        As mentioned above, it should be permanent. Don't forget that the entire piston assembly is soldered together from multiple pieces. See this blog post:

                        https://www.dwerden.com/forum/entry....stons-Are-Made

                        Basically, the top and bottom pieces are soldered, and at every port you see there is a solder joint.
                        oh wow i didnt know that. i always assumed the piston was one big piece on its own. so would it also be possible to remove the infected tubes inside the pistons and replace those, or am i thinking to easy then.. ?
                        -besson imperial 1980s
                        -JEP 1020

                        Comment

                        • Niek_H
                          Junior Member
                          • Oct 2023
                          • 13

                          #13
                          Originally posted by highpitch View Post
                          Niek, are you here in the states?

                          If so, you might contact Dan Oberloh in Seattle, WA. He is one of the foremost repair/restoration guys in the US.

                          Dennis
                          no, unfortunatly not. i live in the Netherlands. quite a few miles further.
                          -besson imperial 1980s
                          -JEP 1020

                          Comment

                          • Shinn
                            Senior Member
                            • Feb 2020
                            • 277

                            #14
                            If transporting/shipping to the UK is an option, you may want to consider McQueens Brass to complete the repairs.
                            http://www.mcqueens.com/

                            Here is a video of a euphonium McQueens restored for Steven Mead.
                            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sd5tV...bnMgYnJhc3M%3D
                            David Shinn
                            Peninsula Concert Band
                            Yorktown, Virginia



                            1971 Besson 181 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3+1 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
                            1971 Besson 176 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
                            1979 Besson 755 'New Standard' Baritone (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC5S
                            1894 Besson ‘Doublophone’ Euphonium (3 + 1 changeover) & Original Leather Case


                            Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidshinn....ibextid=LQQJ4d
                            Peninsula Concert Band: https://www.peninsulaconcertband.org/

                            Comment

                            • TheJH
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2014
                              • 339

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Niek_H View Post
                              no, unfortunatly not. i live in the Netherlands. quite a few miles further.
                              I had an inkling from your name you might be a fellow Dutchman

                              if you don't mind me asking, what part of the Netherlands do you live? to narrow down some of your options.
                              Euphoniums
                              2008 Willson 2960TA Celebration
                              1979 Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign (Round Stamp)
                              Mouthpiece: Denis Wick SM4
                              Baritone
                              1975 Besson New Standard
                              Mouthpiece: Courtois 10

                              Comment

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