ACB Doubler - Review Video

[davewerden]

Here is the video I put together with my overall impressions of the DOUBLER. (I'm still hoping to do a video of a piece of music with piano, but venue availability is becoming tricky.)

Not mentioned in the video is something I thought to check just today. The valve spacing is the same as on my Adams, based on a quick & dirty measurement. For some reason it feels like less of a reach across 123, which is why I checked. Might be the finger buttons just "fit" me better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbug4CDv2VE

[RickF]

Excellent and thorough review of the ACB Doubler Dave. The 4th valve lock looks almost identical to my M5050 where I’ve had no complaints.

[davewerden]

I realized after I finished that I didn't mention intonation in the review. In my mind that box was already checked because I had already put it in the intonation graphs. It's a confusing issue to simply discuss without context. Just now I was doing some comparisons and found a couple that were interesting.

The Doubler seems to be in the same family as the JP Sterling 374 for pitch direction:



And it holds up pretty well compared to Prestige 2051:

[davewerden]

Excellent and thorough review of the ACB Doubler Dave. The 4th valve lock looks almost identical to my M5050 where I’ve had no complaints.

Thanks, Rick! On my Bessons and Sterlings I had the flipper type of lock. I would periodically have to check the screw for tightness. And at some point I started using a woodwind mouthpiece pad on the large branch, right where the flipper would contact the tube. That kept it from vibrating and making noise. The simple flipper was very convenient to activate, but had its drawbacks! This ACB and M5050 type is a bit less convenient, but much more "safe" and dependable I think.

[Shawn]

Great review.
On the original shop video he A/B'd with with the 321 and I quite preferred the 321.
I think it comes down to player now, at least to the point where, when I listen carefully to the playing in this review, I mostly just hear Dave Werden.
So I still prefer ACB's man on the 321 in the A/B setup, but Dave makes this horn sound really good.

But that I'm in Canada, I'd be on the Doubler's list of Tour Dates. If I ever get to Kansas City (I've heard there are some crazy little women there...) I'm going to check it out.

[daruby]

David,

Beautiful review. I think you covered the important parts and Trent should be jumping up and down with the quality of your review! I can think of a few more things I want to look in to when I do my own review, but I guarantee my production values will be nowhere near as good! I will play with my collection of heavy 4th valve caps. I also will look closely at the positioning of the leadpipe as it relates to ergonomics, in particular how far up the bell it is positioned and how far does it wrap around the bell. Also the "handrest to 1-2-3 valve" positioning. The leadpipe positioning has a great deal to say about use of the horn by the small of stature or young (pre-adolescent) players vs. professional trombone/tuba players who might be using it purely as a doubler. The hand rest positioning also relates to the same. I will re-do the intonation charts given my embouchure just to see if things come out any different for me. I probably will do a couple of excerpts from Moreceau Symphonique in both the high and low range to see how it sounds across the range. Also maybe the first 16-32 bars of Suite in F to test out response of low range.

Doug

[AustinCustomBrass]

David,

Beautiful review. I think you covered the important parts and Trent should be jumping up and down with the quality of your review!

Doug

I am absolutely floored! When I envisioned this trial I just thought folks might write a sentence or two with their thoughts. This far, FAR, FAR surpasses what I had imagined. I am so very thankful and appreciative!

This gives us so much to work with to work on improving them even further.

Best regards and again thank you so much!
-T

[davewerden]

Happy to help, Trent! In a diverse group (but a serious group) like this one you can probably harvest several good tips/suggestions/kudos.

Curious if anyone else has a problem with the lyre box on the 1st slide. I often hold the horn there when picking it up and it hurts! It is not a big deal, though. If it were my own I would take out the screw and tape it inside the case somewhere. I wonder if I'm unusual in handling the horn this way.

Great ideas, Doug! Morceau is a piece that is still played by countless people who may use horns like this one, for one thing.

I should have mentioned, in passing anyway, that it has a floating leadpipe.

The handgrip was positioned well, but was a trifle narrow for me as I moved the horn around. I'm curious to see if that is just a personal issue for me.

As far as leadpipe position, I found it unsurprising. That is, it does not match my upstream embouchure any better than most stock horns. Maybe you can tell a little from this video about the suitability for shorter players. As a reminder, my torso is somewhat long for my height (and my legs are slightly shorter).

This is from today. I asked Sara to run through Liebesfreud with me because we have already put up a video using my Adams. The goal was twofold: 1, to give a sense of how it sounds in real life with a piano in a live room, and 2, to allow someone to compare it to my Adams if they want (although I don't that is too useful). Here is today's session:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmEYdwNsAHE

[daruby]

David,

I listened carefully to both versions (Adams vs. ACB). I could hear very few differences in style or pitch and they both sounded like you. Of course, I don't know how it feels from behind the mouthpiece in terms of response and ease of performance. Also, I was aware of your underbite and the requirement for adjustments to the leadpipe angle for your comfort. The biggest difference in sound appears to me to be that the Adams sounds a bit more robust and melodic compared with the ACB. This may be based on microphone placement since they are not the same in each performance. Notwithstanding, you continue to sound great on both.

Doug

[RickF]

I also listened to both recordings and as Doug said, “you sound like you”. I did notice some alternate fingerings (1-3) for the 6th partial Eb and it sounded fine. Your trills or turns sounded comfortable and easy.

Got to say, Sara is a real gem!

[John Morgan]

Excellent review and playing, Dave! Sara, too, you have a keeper there!!

As for the position of the lyre box and screw, I usually pick up my horn by the upper branch or the hand guard because it is usually sitting in a euphonium stand in the upright position. However, when pulling the horn out of a case, I most always pick the horn up with my left hand, and I, like you, use the area where the lyre box is on the ACB Doubler, and you are quite right, the screw sticks out a bit and is in the way. I can't remember where most of those lyre boxes are on other euphoniums, to be honest. Adams does not have one (no marching in parades with my Adams for me I guess unless I have the music memorized). There is a lyre box on my B&H Imperial, and I think, without getting it out, it is on the tubing coming out of the 3rd valve, so it does not get in the way. And the screw does not stick out, if I remember correctly. It would probably be pretty easy to relocate the lyre box on the Doubler to the 3rd valve/slide area. And have the box on the inside of the tubing with the screw hole such that it doesn't stick out.

Like this:

Agreed on the 4th valve lock. I owned a Miraphone M5050 like Rick, and the lock was real similar. But sort of hard to work it one handed, like you can on the Bessons, for instance. And I also think the M5050 and Doubler locks are probably overall better. But the easiest one is my current Adams. It takes absolutely no effort to use. More than likely due to the fact that there isn't a 4th valve lock on it! I worried about that initially (like when putting it in the case), but after 3 years, hasn't been a problem so far.

[Shawn]

Pure quality n the Liebesfreud. Just well done and a great partnership understanding but to come back to the topic, if anyone expected the Doubler to double over, Dave made it double down instead.

[davewerden]

Thanks for the feedback, folks!

One interesting thing I noticed yesterday and my practice. The high Bb (concert) on the Doubler is easier than on my Adams. It is in the "no brainer" category on the Doubler vs. needing a bit of thought on my Adams. It also seems a bit easier to go into the really high range, above the F above high Bb. That's kinda fun! (In almost all other playing my Adams is much easier to navigate, so I'm not considering swapping!)

[davewerden]

The horn I used is now on its way to Snorlax! It's been fun testing it, and I'll have one more video ready to upload in a day or two. It's just a continuation of our Liebesfreud session, where we rehearse a few more pieces. I took snips from each of the next 3 pieces to give a little more feel for different styles. Stay tuned!

[cwlowbrass]

Great review.
On the original shop video he A/B'd with with the 321 and I quite preferred the 321.
I think it comes down to player now, at least to the point where, when I listen carefully to the playing in this review, I mostly just hear Dave Werden.
So I still prefer ACB's man on the 321 in the A/B setup, but Dave makes this horn sound really good.

But that I'm in Canada, I'd be on the Doubler's list of Tour Dates. If I ever get to Kansas City (I've heard there are some crazy little women there...) I'm going to check it out.

Hi Shawn, I was the one that did the comparison video. What you might have heard is a general comfort level with the horn too, as I have owned the Yamaha for 10+ years, and had really only played on the Doubler's at that time briefly. I am also mainly a trombonist, so my ability to pick up any Euphonium and be right there with it takes a little longer. Having spent more time with the Doubler's, I definitely prefer it to the 321 in both playability and sound. Here is actually another video I just did playing a short etude excerpt on the Doubler's (Satin Lacquer Version), and I feel that the sound I was able to get from it was improved from the previous one, just by virtue of having it a bit longer.

https://youtu.be/3nKBTk4TZ1w

I wanted to also say a big THANK YOU again to everyone that has taken the time to play these instruments and provide great feedback and reviews! And thank you Dave for allowing us to use your platform to talk about the Doubler's Euphoniums and get the word out more.