Some brands I am considering…

[iMav]

Besson Prestige BE2051 ($9.4k)
Adams E3 ($8k)
Willson 2900S ($9.7k)
S.E.Shires Q41 ($6k)
Yamaha 642T Neo ($8k)

The Shires seems to be a great value given the positive feedback I’ve heard and the claim (by S.E.Shires) that many US military bands are standardizing on them.

Thoughts?

[davewerden]

Hi, Larry!

To start things off, consider that the Shires you mention specifically is popular with some of the service band folks because it is (more or less) a new generation of Willson. They had Willson players helping with the prototyping, for example. So if you like Willson, you may like the Shires a bit better.

I chose Adams from all the brands I have tried (including all on your list) because it had the best response and intonation, AND it had a sound that was as colorful and flexible as the best of the traditional British horns. Adams offers many options, by far more than any of the others. For the best value, I might look at an E3 in .70 metal, and either yellow or gold brass. That would come very close to my own horn and save over $1k in price (as well as being less prone to bell damage, because my sterling silver bell is quite soft).

But let's see what other folks have to say!

[davewerden]

Oh, and you might compare the horns' intonation using this page:

http://www.dwerden.com/Intonation/

You can compare more than one at a time. I just ran the above list (having to use a Yamaha 641 because I have not graphed the Neo) all together. The graph with all 5 is a bit cluttered, but just for fun here it is. Click it to see a larger view.

You can do a more same 2- or 3-horn comparison using the link above.

[iMav]

So, can you describe the differences you see between the Shires Q41 (or Willson, since they are similar) and the Adams E3. (Basic, seat of the pants, behind the mouthpiece playability differences for YOU.)

Thanks!

[iMav]

BTW, your brushed lacquer finish DOES look pretty sweet!

[davewerden]

BTW, your brushed lacquer finish DOES look pretty sweet!

Of course you can order a silver-plated horn with brushed finish to get that kind of look all over. It's a small upcharge, I think.

Here is the .70 E3 I tested and considered keeping. So I asked for gold satin lacquer to make it special. Still WAY less $$ than the sterling silver:

[davewerden]

So, can you describe the differences you see between the Shires Q41 (or Willson, since they are similar) and the Adams E3. (Basic, seat of the pants, behind the mouthpiece playability differences for YOU.)

Thanks!

Intonation is shown pretty well in the graph, so that is more than seat-of-the-pants.

Otherwise...
The center seemed a bit loose on the Shires, which was actually a surprise. And the tone was not quite as British-like as I want. Valves did not seem very good, but that was almost certainly just newness or display-ness of the horn.

My review from 2019 is here:
http://www.dwerden.com/forum/entry.p...niums&comments

[Richard III]

Besson Prestige BE2051 ($9.4k)
Adams E3 ($8k)
Willson 2900S ($9.7k)
S.E.Shires Q41 ($6k)
Yamaha 642T Neo ($8k)

The Shires seems to be a great value given the positive feedback I’ve heard and the claim (by S.E.Shires) that many US military bands are standardizing on them.

Thoughts?

What is your sound concept? Shires doesn't sound like an Adams. Or a Wilson. The Yamaha sounds like, well, a Yamaha and nothing else. Who do you like listening to? What do they play? What kind of music is your favorite?

[iMav]

The Yamaha 642 is probably the most obvious choice since my current horn is a 642 copy/stencil horn. And prior to that, I played a YEP-321. I’m sure it would be absolutely great, give me the longevity and reliability I am after, etc.

I know you [Dave] are being honest, but I do have to factor in your relationship with Adams, of course. You have a bias (even if it is completely warranted).

I also have been chatting up “Matonizz”, and he of course also recommends the E3 (another Adams artist). However, he did give the Wessex Sinfonico surprisingly high marks for a mid-tier option (granted, the reviews here have been pretty positive as well).

There is also an underlying desire to, perhaps, have something unique in my musical circle. Given I’m in ND, that’s not too difficult though. Ha!

Bottom line. I have the budget to buy what I’d like. I’d prefer to buy something that is going to see me through the remainder of my playing days (I’m 52, so have some significant time left, Lord-willing).

As far as my playing sound. I suppose it is fairly bright. I can make most horns sound good enough I guess. When I am in a room full of band folks before a session, I’ll usually get a few head turns when I start warming up…not sure if that is my tone, projection, brightness…

I’m a former good player who has rekindled the old passion for music and am having a grand old time.

[John Morgan]

If the budget is not an issue, I would get an Adams E3. I suppose I have a bias because I think it is the best horn out there, and I own one. I have owned multiple Bessons, two Prestiges, the top Yamaha, a Hirsbrunner, two Wessex horns and a Miraphone M5050 (and probably some more I forgot about). The Adams is the best horn I have had of all those, with the Miraphone a solid 2nd place choice.

I love the way the Adams sounds, and to me, that is the absolute number one consideration before ANYTHING else. It just sounds nice, and it sounds the way I want a euphonium to sound.

Mine is also gorgeous, which makes me want to pick it up and play it every time I pass by it, which is often. You can customize the horn to your heart's content as I did. I had the sterling silver bell hand engraved by an artist in the former Czechoslovakia.

I have had it over 6 years, and I love it. I just joined a community band in Ocala, Florida after relocating from Sturgis, SD to Summerfield, Florida. I played the euphonium solo in a Superman medley at our last concert and must have had half the 12-member trumpet section come up to me over the past week or so and compliment me on the solo. They said stuff like I never knew a euphonium could sound like that, best sounding euphonium solo I have heard in a long time, your horn just sings beautifully, etc. I was very humbled to hear those things, but I know in my heart that the reason for the sound had a lot to do with the horn I was playing on. I simply love this horn. Never ever tire of it. The horn itself motivates me to play and keep playing. I can sit down with my horn and just think of songs and play them on the Adams all day long and NEVER get bored or tired of it.

Check out the Adams. I bought mine without ever seeing one in person, let alone playing on one. I was not disappointed, and I don't think you would be either.

[iMav]

Hey I was just watching one of your videos John! You sound great on the E3.

Where did you buy yours? I was thinking of buying through ACB if I go with the E3 as they have a fairly comprehensive customization menu on their website (although I’d probably order in the phone anyways).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The Adams E3 keeps garnering more and more positive recommendations…

[iMav]

What would be the main difference between the yellow brass, gold brass, and sterling silver bells?

(And for those that own E3s, what do you have?)

[rgorscak]

John

is there a uTube recording of that superman piece? I would like to hear it.

I like my Adams E3 and still have to decide what to do with my 3 year old Besson Prestige 2052 (along with other horns that i should not have bought)! I got the Adam E3 because Dave's charts showed it to be more in tune. Being away from playing a horn for 50+ years, that Adam E3 makes it easier to play in tune than working the trigger on the Besson. An old mind gets confused between the 4th valve and trigger!!!

Rich G

[iMav]

Here is his YT channel.

https://youtube.com/channel/UCa_ChDRHrtgZvlgaq_74Qyw

[John Morgan]

Hey I was just watching one of your videos John! You sound great on the E3.

Where did you buy yours? I was thinking of buying through ACB if I go with the E3 as they have a fairly comprehensive customization menu on their website (although I’d probably order in the phone anyways).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The Adams E3 keeps garnering more and more positive recommendations…

Thanks for the kind words.

Well, I got mine through Taylor Music in Aberdeen, SD, almost in your neck of the woods. I don't know that ACB had started selling Adams when I got mine, but they could have. I also think they were back on the east coast at the time, not in KC like they are now. I worked directly with the owner of Taylor Music, Stan Kolb, to get my Adams. I also was in communication with Miel Adams before the order and during the build. Adams sent me some pictures of the horn as it was being built. It went well. I had bought my Miraphone M5050 through Taylor Music as they are a huge Miraphone tuba retailer. So, it only seemed natural to go back to them for the Adams, as they were at the time one of a few Adams retailers in the U.S.

I didn't get any particularly "good deal" through Taylor as I don't think the Adams horns are discounted much if any. But Adams treats you right, no doubt. And I like Taylor Music. But you would also do well with ACB, they are a very good Adams dealer.

Good luck in any event. Getting a new euphonium is so much fun. I miss the thrill, but my Adams is so good that I can't possibly envision getting another euphonium unless it is a collector's type horn.