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Thread: Adams Sonic with 5th Valve

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    Adams Sonic with 5th Valve

    Any opinions about the ADAMS 5 Valve that has appeared on FaceBook and Instagram today?

    Wondering if this would be the compromise horn I’ve been wondering about?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Hi Ann, could you post links to the instagram and facebook pages where you found this Adams 5-valver?

    Best, Guido
    M5050L - DC2&3, SM2&4U, BT16, Carbonaria Heavy & New
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  3. #3
    You can find this on the Adams Brass FB page:

    https://www.facebook.com/AdamsBrass

    The text on the post says:

    What about this innovative 5th-valve-euphonium we built for Matthew Summers?
    The extra rotary valve assures tuning like a bass trombone Gb valve.
    Matthew is just now retiring from the Marine Band. Here are the photos:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  4. Hi all,

    Matthew Summers was at the Adams factory at the same time I was last summer to drop off my E3 for its modifications. He was in deep discussion with Miel Adams (which I was able to observe and lightly participate in) about this very horn. The idea to graft in a Gb attachment on a rotary valve between the 3rd valve and the 4th valve on a non-compensating Sonic was discussed and mocked up there. Miel Adams had an "in-process" Sonic dismantled and a rotary F attachment housing mocked up in the short distance available to make the Gb attachment be independent as it would be on most Bass Trombones. Matt's motivation was not only to have this unique instrument mirror the playing characteristics of the bass trombone he plays when not in the Marine Corp Band, but also to reduce valve mass (by eliminating extra inch of length on 1-2-3) and to make the horn more free blowing. Plus he now can get down to a real double pedal Bb.

    It is great to see this horn now and Matt will be playing it at the US Army Band Tuba and Euphonium Conference (Workshop?) in a few short weeks. While not an entirely new idea, Matt is trying to eliminate the weight of valve action on 1-2-3 and make a free blowing horn that has great low range response while using the options available with the 5 valve combinations to deal with the inherent intonation issues.

    While I am not sure this will be widely accepted, I am sure he will make the most of this unique horn.

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  5. #5
    I think I would like it. I could never afford one, but I do believe I would like it.
    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
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    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    [snip]Matthew Summers was at the Adams factory at the same time I was last summer to drop off my E3 for its modifications. He was in deep discussion with Miel Adams (which I was able to observe and lightly participate in) about this very horn. The idea to graft in a Gb attachment on a rotary valve between the 3rd valve and the 4th valve on a non-compensating Sonic [snip]
    Do you have any idea of what fingerings would be used?
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1 mouthpiece
    Bach 36B trombone; Bach 6.5AL and Faxx 7C mouthpieces (pBone on loan to granddaughter)
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo; RIP) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

  7. The 5th valve is equivalent to a 2-3 combo. I am completely in the dark how one would use it, but if I played bass trombone, it would be more apparent.
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post
    Do you have any idea of what fingerings would be used?
    I think we can infer some fingerings. The extra slide is roughly the same as 23, which is a half step shorter than the 4th valve slide. So I might assume that if I need 234 for a low concert D on a non comp, then I might need 13+rotor with the new system. Some similar math might yield a clue or two.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
    Posts
    1,867
    Now this is interesting. Doug, do you say this was fabricated with the Sonic model, a non-compensating horn? Looks like it from Dave's pictures.

    On a trombone with an F attachment, the trigger gives you an F (1st position), and if you want an Eb below the staff, then you use trigger and 3rd position, but it is a long 3rd position! Without the F attachment, the slide has 7 positions. With the F attachment, the slide has only 6 positions, so the 2nd position or 3rd position without the F attachment are both "shorter" than the 2nd and 3rd positions with the F attachment. On a bass trombone with two triggers, the second trigger usually causes you to move the slide positions even further out for various notes. With two triggers employed, the slide has only 5 positions.

    So, with this valve, it seems there would not be a good way to get notes in tune when using the 5th valve with other valves. If the horn were compensated, then it could be better, but maybe not as good as a 4 valve compensating horn.

    Or would you just have to use an entirely different set of fingerings when employing the 5th valve? (Like you have to use 234 to get low D on a non-compensating horn, instead of 124 which you would use on a compensating horn.)

    Guess I don't quite know how this works. Would be interesting to find out.
    Last edited by John Morgan; 02-19-2024 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Correcting my second paragraph!
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  10. It works like a bass trombone with independent F and Gb attachments. The 4th valve is still a non compensated F attachment and the 5th valve is a non-compensated Gb (2-3) attachment. You can use 4 and 5 together also. Lots of optional fingerings. BUT, I don't really know how it works.
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

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