Piston Weight Comparisons

[davewerden]

OK, time to start a new obsession! Valves will feel better if they get lighter in weight, all else being equal. So I decided to measure the pistons on my Adams and on the Sinfonico. In my review of the latter I mentioned they had shortened the "overhang" at the bottom. That was incorrect when I compared the directly today - they are the same length as my Adams. BTW, that idea was stuck in my head from years ago when Glenn Call had his Boosey pistons modified. They put a good size chamfer on the top and bottom, and they shorted the bottom overhang to reduce weight and surface area (friction). They did indeed feel remarkable!

Anyway, here are the measurements I made today, when I learned my Adams piston is lighter than the Wessex (using the 1st valve of both horns). It's less than 10% difference, so I don't know how important it is, but any reduction is good in theory.

Anyone else want to jump in with measurements?




Here is what I am measuring:




To make it clear:

[hyperbolica]

I have 3:

Festivo, 114g without caps - 90
King 2280, 121g without caps - 92
Conn 24i, 70g without caps - 56

Only the first one is compensating, and the Conn is significantly smaller in bore

edited to reflect weights without caps

[carbogast]

Did you remove the stem?

[davewerden]

Did you remove the stem?

Good question! I trimmed the photos above so the measurement was clearer, but forgot that it left out important information. See the new photo in the original post.

I leave all the parts that have to move, so the piston, stem, and finger button. I took off the valve cap because it is solid to the horn and does not move with the piston.

[franz]

Besson Prestige, 84 gr.

[davewerden]

Besson Prestige, 84 gr.

So your weighs less than mine. Must be because it was standing up on the scale

[daruby]

Sterling Bauerfeind and Adams Top Sprung

Sterling Bauerfeind Valve - 94 grams



Adams Top Sprung Valve - 88 grams



Note that my Sterling valve is quite a bit older than David's Adams valve, though they are both Bauerfeind. Also, the top sprung valve includes the total spring weight, though only a portion of the spring (the top part) is unsprung weight.

[carbogast]

Sterling Bauerfeind Valve - 95 grams

[davewerden]

I'll start making a chart in a bit. NOTE: I'm going to take off 1 gram from my measurements. I forgot that I had weighed the paper towel square I had on the platform at 1 gram before I started.




New post, with chart, is here:

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...t-Valve-Weight

[Jharris]

Boosey and Hawkes Class A New standard prototype 1924 70g
Besson Imperial 1980s 70g
Wessex Sinfonico 2021 103g


Does stainless steel weigh more per metre than Solbron?

Do heavy valves help sound projection/tone wise?

Or are they simply a consequence of larger bore instruments?

[davewerden]

Does stainless steel weigh more per metre than Solbron?

Old pistons were made with brass, I believe, and stainless steel is much heavier.

Do heavy valves help sound projection/tone wise?

Good question. I don't know, but it seems logical that they might.

Or are they simply a consequence of larger bore instruments?

No, they are heavier material, as mentioned above (although a larger bore horn probably needs a larger diameter piston at some point, which would also add a teeny bit of weight). I think the stainless steel lasts longer, of course, but it is also more dimensionally stable.

[Fujiifilm]

Willson 2900 (newer model, ca. 2012) - 86g

[Matt Summers]

Adams Sonic / Sonic-V (five)

68g Sonic valve on left. 96g Adams E-1 valve on right.

68g vs 96g = >29% reduction in reciprocating mass.

[davewerden]

Just a reminder that the newer post is below, which includes a chart of the weights (I just added Matthew's Sonic):

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...t-Valve-Weight

[franz]

Update: The weight of the pistons on my compensated Besson New Standard 3-valve comes in at 74 grams.