Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 92

Thread: "British" sound vs. American/focused/??? sound

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Valley City, North Dakota, USA
    Posts
    1,314

    "British" sound vs. American/focused/??? sound

    I'm not quite sure I have been able to discern what the differences are in these "sound concepts". Certainly, I can tell the difference between a darker and a brighter sound. But from what I've read, that's not the same as this british vs. american sound concept.

    I've read threads where people say it has more to do with the player than anything else...but then I've also read threads here where advise is given to stay away from certain brands, depending on the sound concept you are aiming for.

    Can someone link to a video (or, perhaps, two videos that contrast nicely) that display (in the most obvious manner possible) the differences between the two?

    [added info from more thread reading]

    It gets even more confusing...read another thread here where the american sound was equated to smaller, more focused, and brighter horns. And THEN I read that the M5050 is quintessentially american in its sound concept (stating that if you desire the british sound, you would absolutely HATE the Miraphones!).
    Last edited by iMav; 04-20-2023 at 06:45 AM.
    Groups
    Valley City Community Band
    Valley City State University Concert Band
    2024 North Dakota Intercollegiate Band (you're never too old!)


    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853
    I suspect you’ll get a lot of different answers to this question. There’s a good discussion thread on this about six years ago here:
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  3. #3
    I could be wrong, but to my ears it seems like a difference in the middle-range of tone. In the "British" sound, to me it seems like there's a little bump there, bringing out some of the more vocal qualities of the euphonium, while the american style is a bit more "even" across the eq spectrum. Not sure if this makes sense to anyone else, but coming from being in the guitar world for so long, that's sort of how I look at it.
    Nicholas
    Shires Q41s
    Alliance DC3/K&G 4+

  4. #4
    This is a very broad topic that I have thought about at length over the years.


    When I first purchased my own euphonium for my own amateur music making enjoyment around 2002 or so, the Besson/Sterling sound with Wick 4ALs coming out of the UK seemed quite different than the US service band approach with the Willsons and 51Ds/BB1s. To describe it from my perspective, the British sound was darker AND broader whereas the American approach tended to be brighter AND more focused. Both approaches thrived in their respective environments.


    But I think there are signs that those historical differences, however any of us may describe them, may be fading. For one thing, especially over in Europe, there is much more variety in equipment choices compared to the past. Bessons are likely still in the majority, but Yamaha, Adams, Geneva, etc. are certainly making inroads. Many different mouthpiece choices now versus 20 or more years ago as well. There are 4 different lines of Wick Steven Mead mouthpieces alone, the latest designs being advertised as being more brilliant sounding. That coupled with Bessons no longer being made with the original tooling over in Germany, etc., there are bound to be some gradual changes in overall sound tendencies. Compared to Europe, the DC service bands still are very much dominated by the Willsons, a clear nod to the success of the legendary Brian Bowman, but whether that will continue in the future now that he has retired remains to be seen.


    Joe Alessi recently commented that the differences in the global approaches to trombone playing appear to be narrowing over time, and he attributed this to the internet, Youtube, and numerous international visits by famous artists, and cross polination of international students in their respective studios. I think he is 100% correct, and I wouldn't foresee it being any different, eventually, with euphonium.
    - Scott

    Euphoniums: Dillon 967, Monzani MZEP-1150S, Dillon 1067 (kid’s horn)
    Bass Trombones: Greenhoe GB5-3G, Getzen 1052FDR, JP232
    King Jiggs P-bone

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Valley City, North Dakota, USA
    Posts
    1,314
    I found it odd that, say, a Q41S and a M5050 would both be considered non-British. Especially considering the darker/broader vs. brighter/focused comparison. (Maybe I just need to listen to more M5050 players. Are they really bright and focused like a 2900, Q41S, etc?)
    Groups
    Valley City Community Band
    Valley City State University Concert Band
    2024 North Dakota Intercollegiate Band (you're never too old!)


    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by iMav View Post
    I found it odd that, say, a Q41S and a M5050 would both be considered non-British. Especially considering the darker/broader vs. brighter/focused comparison. (Maybe I just need to listen to more M5050 players. Are they really bright and focused like a 2900, Q41S, etc?)
    I've not played a Q41 (or any Shires euph for that matter), but my impression is that this is very much patterned after the Willson 2900 with new tweaks, etc. I have played (and owned) two Willson 2900s, and to me they play absolutely nothing like a Miraphone 5050 - I've only played that Miraphone at the Army conference several years ago, but from that impression I would say it is nearly the opposite of a 2900 - the 5050 was much darker and broader than even a Besson - for me at least. That isn't surprising as this instrument was initially designed for Demondrae, and he had been playing a Besson prestige before that - I spoke to him at one of the Army conferences while he was still playing Besson, and he told me he preferred the British euphonium concept. I was really impressed with that Miraphone 5050, and if any of my local dealers ever got one in, I would give it serious consideration to purchase.
    - Scott

    Euphoniums: Dillon 967, Monzani MZEP-1150S, Dillon 1067 (kid’s horn)
    Bass Trombones: Greenhoe GB5-3G, Getzen 1052FDR, JP232
    King Jiggs P-bone

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Valley City, North Dakota, USA
    Posts
    1,314
    Interesting. This is from a prior, referenced thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by djwpe View Post
    Having owned both and settled on the Miraphone, I'd agree with Dave, that the biggest decider is whether you want to sound "British". If you do, then the Miraphone will be as wrong for you as the Sterling was for me.
    Both Dave and Don agreed that the M5050 was the antithesis of the “British sound”. (Others also agreed in the thread.)

    So neither the 2900 nor the M5050 fit the British sound concept…and are so completely different.

    None of this makes sense.
    Last edited by iMav; 04-20-2023 at 02:28 PM.
    Groups
    Valley City Community Band
    Valley City State University Concert Band
    2024 North Dakota Intercollegiate Band (you're never too old!)


    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by iMav View Post
    Interesting. This is from a prior, referenced thread:



    Both Dave and Don agreed that the M5050 was the antithesis of the “British sound”. (Others also agreed in the thread.)

    So neither the 2900 nor the M5050 fit the British sound concept…and are so completely different.

    None of this makes sense.
    I've only tried the M5050 a couple of times, but if it is the antithesis of the British euphonium sound (I don't quite agree with that), it is because of completely opposite reasons as compared to a Willson 2900. I thought the 5050 had a huge broad mellow sound - in my mind it was the British tone concept on steroids.
    - Scott

    Euphoniums: Dillon 967, Monzani MZEP-1150S, Dillon 1067 (kid’s horn)
    Bass Trombones: Greenhoe GB5-3G, Getzen 1052FDR, JP232
    King Jiggs P-bone

  9. Quote Originally Posted by euphdude View Post
    I've only tried the M5050 a couple of times, but if it is the antithesis of the British euphonium sound (I don't quite agree with that), it is because of completely opposite reasons as compared to a Willson 2900. I thought the 5050 had a huge broad mellow sound - in my mind it was the British tone concept on steroids.
    Listening to everything I can find with a euphonium played by many, I might agree with the above. I would add that the M5050 sounds like the British sound concept with the sock removed from the bell. My ears do not like the lack of overtones in many British style euphoniums.
    Richard


    King 1130 Flugabone
    King 2280 Euphonium
    King 10J Tuba
    Conn 22B Trumpet

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Summerville (SC)
    Posts
    483
    I concur with Richard. Although definitely not sounding like a classic Besson, I absolutely love the broad and overtone-rich tembre of M5050. I prefer it with the Warburton Demondrae (BT16), or the Alliance DC3 for added flair in the midrange to low regions. .

    Eventually, I would like to experiment on M5050 with the SM4X, as well as with the Warburton Brandon Jones preferred by Rick Floyd.

    G.
    Last edited by guidocorona; 04-21-2023 at 10:18 AM.
    M5050L - DC2&3, SM2&4U, BT16, Carbonaria Heavy & New
    Wessex EP104 Festivo - available
    Carolbrass CCR7772 Bb cornet - Available

Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •