Adams euphonium: with trigger or without?

[Kat]

Dear euphonium players,

I've been a silent reader in this forum so far and I hope that it is okay to ask a first question now.

I'm about to buy an Adams euphonium and I'm wondering if it was wise to opt for a trigger or not. As the Adams instruments are supposed to have a very good intonation, I'd be very interested in your opinions and your advice with regard to this issue.

Kind regards
Kat

[bbocaner]

pro:
-you can adjust some notes so you can blow through the center of the slot and not have to bend pitches

con:
-adds weight
-requires maintenance
-adams mechanism isn't the smoothest and lightest mechanism
-reportedly affects response (weight distribution on the instrument, tuning slide fit not as tight)

seems like a lot more cons than pros, but if you personally like playing with it there then that one pro is a pretty big deal.

[davewerden]

Nice summary, Barry!

If there were no cons, I would have a trigger. (I have one additional "con" because of an old wrist injury that leaves my left wrist more sensitive to extra weight and reach.)

On a philosophical note, I mentally wrestle with the "what-if" of having a trigger for myself. I'm working toward a recital for this weekend, and my chops are much stronger right now than they usually are. That enables, or causes, me to blow some notes sharper than normal when I'm really getting into the music. That means either my brain likes being sharp, or my chops are not used to finding it physically easier to play pitches in the upper half of the range...or both. My natural tendency is saying I NEED to control this! That is probably true, but if I had a trigger right this minute I'd find it useful...or a crutch. See the debate?

Looking at the long term for a euphonium player, limiting unneeded weight is a good thing. Our bodies may start to object to holding 10+ pounds in front of our natural center of gravity, and our left wrist may find it wearing to add a trigger to its duties. (Along those lines, I highly recommend the Comfy Euph Strap to help our bodies with the task.)

[DaveBj]

I have said before that if I were to buy a high-end euph, it would be with a trigger, simply because I'd rather have one and not need it than need it and not have it. That is still my position. I don't buy the advertising hype that the horn is good enough without a trigger, and as for testimony from expert players supporting that position -- well, everyone's experience is different.

[Jharris]

Trigger is worth it.

Especially if the ensemble have them. Because it sounds so obvious when you’re the only one out of tune.

If no one has or uses their trigger, then the chances are you also won’t use it, because you will all be out of tune, but relative to each other, which is less noticeable to the majority of listeners.

It does of course add weight and change the distribution of that weight, but is it more than 200 grams? it’s just a few rods a pedal and a few springs and screws, I think that the HBC valve caps are way more of an impact weight and tone wise than the trigger mechanism.

Maintenance is a bit of slide grease and slightly more fiddly when cleaning, it’s really no big deal.

Crutch sure, but the euphonium has inherent intonation struggles that no brands design has avoided completely, so until they do, than a trigger is worth it as an overall compromise, one that seems to be good enough for the professionals anyway.

[davewerden]

Kat,

In case you have never had a trigger, you need to be aware that is has outward motion only. That is, it can only fix notes that are sharp. Having said, every euphonium I have tested has at least some sharp notes. (Most also have some flat notes, which you have to deal with in the old-fashioned ways.)

[Kat]

Thanks a lot for your help. I can see now that a trigger definitely has several advantages and disadvantages which I should weigh up one against another before taking a decision.

[deVisée]

My Adams E2 has one, but I rarely use it. The intonation really is great without it, and I'm not a fan of its ergonomics.

(edit: I'm not a professional musician, and my 'main instruments' have lots of cat gut strings that are basically always out of tune so my opinion might not matter that much. Since you're in Schwarzwald you might consider driving to Adams to try some instruments yourself...)

[58mark]

I Have one, don't use it, don't need it.

[MichaelSchott]

I have said before that if I were to buy a high-end euph, it would be with a trigger, simply because I'd rather have one and not need it than need it and not have it. That is still my position. I don't buy the advertising hype that the horn is good enough without a trigger, and as for testimony from expert players supporting that position -- well, everyone's experience is different.

I don’t see it as “advertising hype”. Adams is not promoting this. I read it from owners. I made the decision to pass on the trigger and have no regrets. For me the only consistently sharp notes are first and second valve combinations (Concert D and G) and some Db and Gb’s. To me it’s not worth the complication, weight and added cost.

[TheJH]

Trigger is unneeded in most cases unless the base intonation of your instrument is out of whack to start with. You have notes that don't play in tune with the normal fingering? Use alternate ones. People have done that to great effect in the past 80-100-odd years.
TC high G (6th partial) on my old Sovereign? Pretty sharp (20+ cents) with 0, Dead-center with 1-2.
High TC A on my Willson? Little sharp with 1-2, pretty much dead-on with 3.
Yes you will have to deal with resistance and backpressure changes, but most of the recent horns have improved so much in that regard that that should not be too big of an issue anymore these days (unless the 4th valve comes into play, that can be a bit awkward)

[davewerden]

I don’t see it as “advertising hype”. Adams is not promoting this. I read it from owners. I made the decision to pass on the trigger and have no regrets. For me the only consistently sharp notes are first and second valve combinations (Concert D and G) and some Db and Gb’s. To me it’s not worth the complication, weight and added cost.

Right. Miel's opinion that the horn doesn't need it, but he wants to give the customers what they want to have. That is partly why he just produced a prototype with a screw bell. It doesn't add to the playing qualities, unless you really want a focused sound and can give up a little open quality of sound and a little responsiveness.

I don't suppose he built those intriguing trumpets/flugels for Christian Scott because he thought they would sound better. He made something special for a prominent artist. And for that matter, Christian may like how the sound is projected from those horns.

[Kat]

Right. Miel's opinion that the horn doesn't need it, but he wants to give the customers what they want to have. That is partly why he just produced a prototype with a screw bell. It doesn't add to the playing qualities, unless you really want a focused sound and can give up a little open quality of sound and a little responsiveness.

Thank you for pointing this out. I hadn't been aware that Miel Adams thinks that an Adams euphonium doesn't need a trigger. As he really knows the instruments, it really makes me ponder whether it was perhaps wise to prefer an Adams without a trigger.

[Magikarp]

I have one on my E2 and only use it for middle A TC (G in bass clef) because that is monstrously sharp, and for lowering certain notes in minor chords for example. I don't use it at all for top F, F sharp, or G (Eb, E, F) because they're bang on. There is also the resale issue - most top end instruments now come with a trigger as at least an option, so I opted for it, despite not using one previously. I'm glad I did. The only issue I have come across is sitting next to my now ex-second euph - she played on a Prestige and didn't trigger and was simply sharp, and seemingly either didn't notice or didn't care.

I am also looking forward to resuming my playing after the break.

[Magikarp]

If I had to suffer playing in an ensemble with woodwind instruments, I would definitely have a trigger by default, in a brass band the intonation issues that require triggering are perhaps less obvious, but I have found reasons to use my trigger for notes that didn't need it on the Bessons I previously owned, which is odd. I guess not euphonium is without its quirks and my Adams has many fewer wayward notes than anything I have played or owned since. Finally, the thumb lever is lovely too!