Adams euphonium: with trigger or without?

[bbocaner]

I'm not sure if he always does this, but I've seen DC using 1+3+trigger for C in the bass clef staff. I suspect he likes the timbre of doing this rather than 4th valve. Options are good.

[iMav]

I'm not sure if he always does this, but I've seen DC using 1+3+trigger for C in the bass clef staff. I suspect he likes the timbre of doing this rather than 4th valve. Options are good.

This was a point David made at the recent Twin Cities workshop during his alternate fingerings session. (Not talking about the use of a trigger, but leveraging alternate fingerings to change the timbre (color, “bite”, etc) of a note.)

it was an excellent session and prompted me to purchase his advanced fingering guide (well, it is at least in my Amazon shopping cart currently. )

Advanced Fingering Guide https://a.co/d/gWCqHGg

[euphdude]

I, personally, am seated firmly in the "no trigger" camp, and that's for a few reasons, one being that I find it much easier to adjust the pitch of a note using embouchure than trying to coordinate an additional thing for my stupid left hand to do, and another being that I've been witness to way too many trigger malfunctions during rehearsals and performances. Sure, you can argue the merits and build quality of X brand's trigger mechanism over Y and Z brands', but no matter how good it is, you're taking a risk with all those extra moving parts. Just something I prefer to not have to worry about.

I'm just an amateur, but my line of thinking has always been in line with what Sean said - who said it much better than I could. Considering this point of view in general, and the excellent reputation that Adams have with respect to equal temperament, if I were to order an Adams, I would definitely not select a trigger. More highly trained musicians might enjoy having the extra tool to address just intonation concerns, but I would wager most individuals who are not professionals would likely not use the trigger for this purpose anyway unless someone were to point it out to them.

[spkissane]

I think one sticking point I have, on the topic of using alternate fingerings and tuning triggers, etc., etc., is that these techniques (in my opinion, at least), should probably be considered more "advanced" techniques than defaults. What I mean by that is that anecdotally, I've seen too many student players leaning on stuff like that, either because they think it's cool or they see it as a shortcut, instead of focusing on regular, consistent practice. Playing in tune involves so much more than the length of a metal tube! And a lot of the other factors are improved through practicing! It's sorta like someone wanting a different mouthpiece that's easier to play high notes on, rather than practicing high register playing and doing embouchure strengthening exercises, and it's why I'm always extremely slow to recommend any type of equipment change to improve performance. A tuning trigger can be a great tool for an advanced player, but it shouldn't ever be s substitute for a solid foundation.

(Ok, tangent over )

[davewerden]

Two semi-random thoughts.

1. Triggers:
Matt van Emmerik had a trigger on his Adams. I asked him about why he got the trigger. He said he didn't really use it for conventional tuning, except when he had a fast mute change and had no time to adjust the slide. But he also said he liked using it at the end of loud notes to change the color (or perhaps compensate for how easy it is to go sharp at high volumes).

2. Alternate Fingerings:
An old memory came back as this thread developed. In college during clarinet techniques, I got marked down a point on my final playing test. The reason is I used a fingering that was easy for me because of our brass fingering patterns. And it was the logical/natural fingering for that interval. The instructor said we were supposed to learn the fingerings we would teach a student, and the one he preferred would be easier for most. So in this case, the "alternate" fingering (by one measure, anyway) is not alternate - it is the standard.

[Kat]

Thank you so much for all the valuable input. This was very helpful!

After thinking everything over, I've decided to buy an Adams E1 (gauge .60) without a trigger. The other instrument I would have had the chance to buy was an E1 (gauge .55) with trigger. As I prefer the slightly thicker metal and as I learned that a trigger can be retrofitted by Adams if ever I came to the conclusion that I need one, I thought it wise to go for the horn which has the .60 gauge.

[TheJH]

2. Alternate Fingerings:
An old memory came back as this thread developed. In college during clarinet techniques, I got marked down a point on my final playing test. The reason is I used a fingering that was easy for me because of our brass fingering patterns. And it was the logical/natural fingering for that interval. The instructor said we were supposed to learn the fingerings we would teach a student, and the one he preferred would be easier for most. So in this case, the "alternate" fingering (by one measure, anyway) is not alternate - it is the standard.

Funny anecdote: My brother is a french horn player, and got lessons from a pretty renowned regional horn player from the start. I was present during one of his lessons (we both had lessons from her for 2 years because she also studied baritone at the conservatory alongside french horn) and that lesson she was talking about intonation tendencies between brands and how to handle them. She showed him that a G on her Alexander tuned entirely differently to the G on my brother's Hans Hoyer horn. Her advice was to don't even start trying to correct it with the right hand (in the bell), but to just learn the alternate valve combination which makes it in tune, and to do that with each 'problem' note. This way, if you switch instruments, as long as you know the brand, you know what combinations you should use to play in tune and you don't have to fiddle around with hand position or lipping it up or down.

I know that's mostly because horn players have much less room for correction on the mouthpiece than use bari-eupho players, but I think it's interesting that for them using alternate fingerings is the standard method, compared to lipping or hand position for example.

[Magikarp]

I use false fingerings s a timbre tool, not a tuning device. I have ears and a trigger for tuning issues. Learning the Bb and F sides of an instrument is instructive but as hs been said, playing in tune is something you learn and a habit best practised assiduously.

[JakeGuilbo]

The trigger on the E3 I currently have caused nothing but problems. Notes would vibrate and the resonance of the horn was negatively affected. Removing the trigger improved response (and reduced buzz) 200%. Part of this is due to the fact that the main tuning slide was misaligned by a significant degree. I'm actually about the have the metal trigger attach points physically removed from the horn so it opens up even more. On this horn alternate fingerings work well to bring notes down.

[Kat]

The trigger on the E3 I currently have caused nothing but problems. Notes would vibrate and the resonance of the horn was negatively affected. Removing the trigger improved response (and reduced buzz) 200%. Part of this is due to the fact that the main tuning slide was misaligned by a significant degree. I'm actually about the have the metal trigger attach points physically removed from the horn so it opens up even more. On this horn alternate fingerings work well to bring notes down.

Thanks a lot for mentioning this. After having considered all the input I got here, I look forward to my E1 without trigger now. I hope that it will arrive next week.