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Thread: Vintage Besson turns up in Alabama middle school

  1. #1

    Vintage Besson turns up in Alabama middle school

    Monday night Mrs. Bean, the instrumental music teacher at the local middle school where the Cullman Community Band rehearses, brought me a horn that the school had inherited (pics attached). It is a UK-manufactured Besson, and it has been around the block a few times, but it is still playable, and she wonders whether it would be worth it having Southeastern Music do a rehab on it. The tubing is almost identical to that on my Chinese-clone compensating 3-valve baritone (itself a copy of the Besson 3-valve comp bari), except that when seen from the back, the two upper arched are set higher (closer to the bell) than on my horn. We can't find a serial number on it anywhere; did Besson used to have a secret location? The valve block and lead pipe are unmarked. I am totally ignorant on vintage instruments, but my wild guess is that it is an old New Standard 3-valve comp euphonium, and I'm asking for input from the more knowledgeable members of the hive mind. Now let's see if I can get those photos attached . . .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Vintage Besson 1.jpg   Vintage Besson 2.jpg   Vintage Besson 3.jpg  
    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Netherlands
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    338
    Nope that's a 3-valve comp baritone. No idea where the serial number should be though, but it definitely is a baritone. I have a New Standard baritone that looks the exact same. And afaik, Besson/B&H never put anything on the valve block except the '1 2 3' to indicate what valve is which.

    Doing a wild unfounded guess, I would say it's from the 60s at most, probably even older.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McIntosh, FL
    Posts
    25
    Yes, definitely a 3-valve compensating baritone. I once owned a lacquered example of the same model. It was not a good player. I blamed this on the general condition of the horn and its worn valves, but I think other forum members have stated that these horns in general were poor performers. The bell is much smaller and the wrap of the main branches differs from that of the more successful 955 Sovereign model that followed. I'm sure others will weigh in, but I wouldn't invest too much time and money in it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia
    Posts
    277
    The 3-valve compensating baritones made in the later 1970’s (model 755) have much better intonation than those made in the 1960’s (model 168). Attached are a few catalogue sheets as references - 168 in 1958 catalogue and 755 in 1977 catalogue.

    The serial number should be in the same location as the New Standard euphoniums - see red circle in the attached picture.

    Here are two (2) links to cross-reference the serial number with the date of manufacture.

    http://www.dwerden.com/Special/bandh_handlists_web.pdf

    http://www.dwerden.com/blog3/postima...ialNumbers.png
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails EF6B24F4-88E1-4386-B7A3-D3BE66923461.jpeg   7088735E-A614-4691-A625-49F4B6CF301A.jpeg   7816D9CE-AAB4-4FD7-9F02-BF9F86F68096.jpeg   3FA1A5ED-FF53-44CE-AF15-D49CA348E86E.jpeg  
    Last edited by Shinn; 04-05-2023 at 05:27 PM.
    David Shinn
    Peninsula Concert Band
    Yorktown, Virginia



    1971 Besson 181 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3+1 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1971 Besson 176 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1979 Besson 755 'New Standard' Baritone (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC5S
    1894 Besson ‘Doublophone’ Euphonium (3 + 1 changeover) & Original Leather Case


    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidshinn....ibextid=LQQJ4d
    Peninsula Concert Band: https://www.peninsulaconcertband.org/

  5. #5
    Thanks, David; that helps a lot.
    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    338
    My NS baritone is from 1975 and it's alright actually. Only TC D above tuning C is flat with 1 so I have to play it with 1-3, and some Es and As have to be played with 3 instead of 1-2. I'm lucky mine still has almost perfect compression, but it should certainly suffice for a beginning player. Paired with a Yamaha 48 mouthpiece the only hindrance is the lack of power and broadness of sound to get along with euphos and trombones, but that's just the difference in models, the NS being much smaller in everything causing that.

    But again, for a starting player, not too bad.

  7. This New Standard baritone is likely from 1960s. Usually the serial number would be on the back side of the bell throat about opposite of the leadpipe. You should be able to see it when the horn is laying horizontal with the leadpipe under the horn.

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

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