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Thread: 2nd valve slide tightness

  1. 2nd valve slide tightness

    I was having problems with my Yamaha 642's second valve slide. It wasn't tight enough, and was popping out during normal use. I tried many greases, but nothing helped. So I took it to a well-regarded shop to have it tightened. Boy, did they! Now it takes a Herculean effort (and dented finger) to remove the slide. That was many years ago, and I think the time has come to do something about it. What should my expectations be about proper tightness? There really isn't much exposed metal on the inners. I've seen some Youtube videos recently where there seems to be a string or bungee holding the slide in place. Is that common?

  2. #2
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    The shop probably either bent your slide a bit or expanded the diameter of one of more of the legs. If you can get it back to where it was, Hetman's has some very thick, sticky slide grease that can be used to hold the slide in. That is what I use, and it works great. On most euphoniums, you really need to be able to pull the 2nd valve slide to dump the water.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  3. #3
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    It also doesn't help that the 2nd valve slide legs are so short that there's not much room for error or gradual increase

  4. #4
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    This is a classic problem with euphoniums (particularly Yamahas and their clones, it would seem). I had the same problem with my clone. I think you should take it to a tech and have it adjusted with you present and testing it. That's really the only way to be sure you don't get home and discover it's still not right (one way or the other).

    In terms of slide grease, what I've been using for years is Dow Corning High Vacuum grease. You can search for it on Amazon. It's not cheap, but lasts a long time and is just great. You can get basically the same stuff at places like Lowes and Home Depot in the plumbing section as "Danco Silicone Faucet Grease" in 1/2 oz. tubes for < $5.00.

    Prior to adopting silicone grease as my slide lube, I used anhydrous lanolin (look on Amazon). I'm pretty sure it's what the Romans used on their euphoniums -- or maybe it was on their garments to waterproof them.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    On most euphoniums, you really need to be able to pull the 2nd valve slide to dump the water.
    I've been seriously thinking about putting an Amado water key on mine lately. I actually ordered one, but haven't gotten around to it yet. But eventually I think I'll get there. I did that to every unkeyed slide on my 1924 tuba and it's worked well.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJH View Post
    It also doesn't help that the 2nd valve slide legs are so short that there's not much room for error or gradual increase
    I don't think I can ever remember pulling out the 2nd valve slide on any euphonium for tuning purposes. I only take it out to dump the water.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  7. #7
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    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    I've been seriously thinking about putting an Amado water key on mine lately. I actually ordered one, but haven't gotten around to it yet. But eventually I think I'll get there. I did that to every unkeyed slide on my 1924 tuba and it's worked well.
    Now that might be a good idea. Then you can just glue the slide on and be done with it, problem solved. Oh wait, you might want to clean the inside of the slide...
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  8. #8
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    Central North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    I don't think I can ever remember pulling out the 2nd valve slide on any euphonium for tuning purposes.
    I have tried that. Alas, it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm sure that if you had just the right audio equipment you might be able to see a slight frequency difference in the result. Maybe.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  9. #9
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    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
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    2,369
    Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    Oh wait, you might want to clean the inside of the slide...
    Maybe. I do clean it now just because it's removable. But otherwise, when it's flushed during the normal cleaning process (using Dr. Merrill's unpatented tuba and euphonium cleaning machine), it will get cleaned. But I suppose -- given that it's a vertical slide, I might want to run some water through it more often. However, once I "fixed" the escaping 2nd valve slide problem on this horn, it just doesn't loosen up. So gluing it in wouldn't accomplish anything.

    Also, never mention the word "glue" around professional brass technicians. They just go crazy at the thought of it (and for pretty good reasons ). The necessary word is "solder."
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
    Posts
    1,870
    I used glue on purpose after thinking of solder. Just seemed to be a better choice at the moment.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

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