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Thread: 1960 Besson Model 180 New Standard 3+1 (Frosted Silver/Gold Bell)

  1. #11
    Such a cool instrument! Never seen a 4 valve compensating bell front Besson before.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by euphdude View Post
    Such a cool instrument! Never seen a 4 valve compensating bell front Besson before.
    My understanding from the USA importer back when I was a Besson Artist is that the curved/adjustable bell design was more or less an experiment meant for better market penetration in the U.S. (probably the school market). For whatever reason, it obviously did not catch on, but a surprising number show up here and there.

    When I tried one, I didn't think it sounded as good as the normal version. However, I had not yet learned that a player's impression of their sound is partly due to direct radiation from the side of the bell, which of course is different when the bell takes off in a different direction. It seems like it should have worked for schools, with players spend almost all their time in the middle of a band, where pointing the bell toward the audience might be an advantage.

    I remember when Denis Winter was using his Connstellation in our band. It had a straight bell. We were trying different seating formations, and two of them had us on the end of a row, in a horseshoe shape. When we were on the audience's right side, Denis always sounded more present (by a lot) on recordings because he pointed outward and I pointed backward. When the moved us to the left side, our balance was reversed. Even with upright bells, it's obvious that bell direction still matters. Presumably it would be more effective if your bell leaned down a bit so you shot over the audience at a 45 degree angle from vertical, vs. the 75-or-so degree angle of the upright.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia
    Posts
    277
    Quote Originally Posted by tjjc View Post
    I'm curious as to how this horn plays relative to the fixed-bell Besson 181/New Standard/767 instruments. I once owned a Besson 3-valve compensating horn with an adjustable bell (Model 175 I think) and liked it very much. Lighter sound but projected very well, and fewer intonation quirks than Besson 4-valve compensating horns.
    Attached is from the original owner’s advertisement. I have found the 180 to be equal to the 181 in responsiveness and characteristics (identical valve block). As Dave Werden mentioned, the forward bell does inherently ‘sound’ slightly different to the player.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails AFB81E75-EF5B-4A11-B9BB-61C8141A0993.jpeg  
    Last edited by Shinn; 03-19-2023 at 04:56 AM.
    David Shinn
    Peninsula Concert Band
    Yorktown, Virginia



    1971 Besson 181 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3+1 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1971 Besson 176 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1979 Besson 755 'New Standard' Baritone (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC5S
    1894 Besson ‘Doublophone’ Euphonium (3 + 1 changeover) & Original Leather Case


    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidshinn....ibextid=LQQJ4d
    Peninsula Concert Band: https://www.peninsulaconcertband.org/

  4. Quote Originally Posted by tjjc View Post
    I'm curious as to how this horn plays relative to the fixed-bell Besson 181/New Standard/767 instruments. I once owned a Besson 3-valve compensating horn with an adjustable bell (Model 175 I think) and liked it very much. Lighter sound but projected very well, and fewer intonation quirks than Besson 4-valve compensating horns.
    The 3-valve and 4-valve bell front Bessons played virtually as well as any of the bell up horns. David's is a superb example and quite rare for its wonderful condition and the finish. The gold wash on the bell front horns was a desireable option since satin silver with gold wash was used by a number of the major college marching bands during the later 1950s to early 1970s.

    The major differences between the bell up and bell front horns are ergonomic. The bell front horns are heavier due to the reinforcing ring around the bell throat. The cases were more awkward to carry. Also the lead pipe mounts on the bell lower than on the bell up horns since it has to clear the set screws and joint that support the pivoting bell.

    As far as playability, my experience was that the bell front Besson projected better in an outdoor setting, and was equal to the bell up Besson in playability. Any Besson of the era (bell front or bell up) had a much nicer sound than my Conn 24i Connstellation. There is debate on whether the bell up horns provide a more satisfactory effect in the ensemble by virtue of the fact that they disperse the rich warm sound of the euphonium in a non-directional way. However, I would argue that the bell front would be highly desireable in some of the multi-use auditoriums I play in that do not have reflecting shells behind the band. In some of those cases, the low brass (tuba and euph) that are not forward facing get "lost in the rafters".
    Last edited by daruby; 04-09-2023 at 07:57 PM.
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  5. #15
    Well, there is a reason someone invented the word "coincidence." I was going through a FB page for my home town and found this photo. It shows a horn configured like the one for sale here. Given the 1949 date of the photo from St. Ambrose High School, I'm guessing this was not a Besson, but it shows that the top valve / right-hand bell thing has been done.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	St. Ambrose College Marching Band - 1949.jpg 
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ID:	10246 Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	10247
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia
    Posts
    277
    Bump
    Last edited by Shinn; 04-12-2023 at 07:14 PM.
    David Shinn
    Peninsula Concert Band
    Yorktown, Virginia



    1971 Besson 181 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3+1 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1971 Besson 176 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1979 Besson 755 'New Standard' Baritone (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC5S
    1894 Besson ‘Doublophone’ Euphonium (3 + 1 changeover) & Original Leather Case


    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidshinn....ibextid=LQQJ4d
    Peninsula Concert Band: https://www.peninsulaconcertband.org/

  7. This is a gorgeous horn. Somebody buy it!
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia
    Posts
    277
    Bump
    Last edited by Shinn; 04-12-2023 at 07:14 PM.
    David Shinn
    Peninsula Concert Band
    Yorktown, Virginia



    1971 Besson 181 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3+1 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1971 Besson 176 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1979 Besson 755 'New Standard' Baritone (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC5S
    1894 Besson ‘Doublophone’ Euphonium (3 + 1 changeover) & Original Leather Case


    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidshinn....ibextid=LQQJ4d
    Peninsula Concert Band: https://www.peninsulaconcertband.org/

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia
    Posts
    277
    Sold through a Facebook listing.
    David Shinn
    Peninsula Concert Band
    Yorktown, Virginia



    1971 Besson 181 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3+1 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1971 Besson 176 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
    1979 Besson 755 'New Standard' Baritone (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC5S
    1894 Besson ‘Doublophone’ Euphonium (3 + 1 changeover) & Original Leather Case


    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidshinn....ibextid=LQQJ4d
    Peninsula Concert Band: https://www.peninsulaconcertband.org/

  10. #20
    Congratulations! I hope it found a good home.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

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