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Thread: Advice offered via Zoom....

  1. #1

    Advice offered via Zoom....

    I had an opinion offered to me this evening by a phenomenally good Sally Army instrumentalist that has left me deflated. My band, as is the wont of British brass bands, is working up a test piece, and this one features rather a uncomfortable, unmusical melody between top F sharp and top Bb (treble clef). It is slow, and sustained and at a dynamic that is too quiet for me to play comfortably. It also has a phrase mark midway which if taken is opening me up for at best a clumsy and heavy rearticulation, or worse, a split. The phrase is just about doable in one breath if played as quiet as I dare. He has suggested playing louder (this then leads to having to breathe) but at the same time criticised my sound and lack of support. The guy is a cornet player (and therefore little better than a bagpiper, or vuvuzela-ist in my considered opinion) but this has got me thinking.

    I have never had any negative comment about my sound before, so I am prepared to put this down to the zoom audio quality. The lack of support thing is puzzling though because I cannot support this any more than I am, unless there is some hideously amiss with my playing. I will record the passage, and upload the sheet music, and obviously welcome opinions. The piece as a whole is much too difficult for the section it has been chosen for, and although it pains me to say it, this solo passage would work a lot better on a baritone. To my ear the intonation is fine and certainly the E2 is a great help because the notes don't need any help. (my tuner says the same, and I'd like to think I'm sympathetic enough to adjust to what is happening around me)

    It's also in G minor so the flattened third sometimes sits uncomfortably with other instruments on the root, but most of the time it's a tiny fraction under, which is ok if the root and fifth are bang in tune. (Edit there is a top Bb against a G so technically a chord is Gm!)

    We have separate euphonium parts at this stage so my colleague is unable to help. I am aware that what is just about doable in the practice room becomes impossible on the contest stage. I always like to have multiple options open to me, just in case, but there is nothing here that suggest itself.

    If anyone is interested the piece is Pilgrim's Progess by Rodney Newton.
    Last edited by Magikarp; 02-21-2023 at 04:49 AM.
    Nowt

    Retired

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Location
    Valley City, North Dakota, USA
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    I would not take criticism so personally (and always assume it is meant to be constructive…even if delivered harshly).

    I’ll let others chime in on the video clip…I’ll just say, whether it is completely valid or not, I “get” the suggestion of having it played more supported (from my brief listen). But I am hardly one to take advice from.
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    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

  3. #3
    34 years of teaching experience here...The low range tone does seem a little woofy, but I can't tell if your corners are going soft, your cheeks are puffing out, or you don't have the air support to play those notes with a sufficient tone

    next...I'm going to say something that I mean with love in my heart

    You have a freaking E2 man!!! dont play it like a yamaha beginner horn, use your 4th valve

  4. #4
    I assume you didn’t read my post because my daft little video is the theme from 1970s children’s cartoon Ivor the Engine! Nary a top G, A or Bb in it! As for the fourth valve - I did use it - for bottom E and G! I didn’t for the low D because reasons.

    My cheeks do puff out and always have done. My corners are fairly tight - not in the Ivor piece because of the daft range change, for the Pilgrim piece because it’s high and quiet they’re tucked in and cheeks are too.

    No; the hit I’m having trouble with I haven’t uploaded yet. I will do it on Wednesday and will film straight on.

    Cheers!

    I’ll upload the music so you can all return the favour

  5. #5
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	881E06D6-E7E5-4144-AC0B-4B6D1CBAD51E.jpeg 
Views:	60 
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ID:	10105

    Hope this helps. I misremembered the key, but this is actually trickier than it looks. I can rattle my way through any number of daft cadenzas but this is proving a little too hard for comfort. What the guy doesn’t realise is that musical shape is not possible when the actual notes are the problem. It’s silly I know, but there we go. To breathe or not to breathe, that is the question.
    Nowt

    Retired

  6. #6
    Sometimes things get into your head. I’m sure you are more than capable of playing this passage.
    Keeping enough breath could be what’s causing you to play too quiet and risking missing the Bb. If it was me I would play it at a more comfortable volume to make sure that I hit the notes and grab a quick breath between the two A’s in the 4th bar. Better that than missing the notes all together.
    Last edited by DEF1; 02-21-2023 at 06:59 AM.
    JP374 Sterling + Mercer and Barker GW3

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    At what tempo is this section to be played?
    Groups
    Valley City Community Band
    Valley City State University Concert Band
    2024 North Dakota Intercollegiate Band (you're never too old!)


    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

  8. #8
    Still not seeing your recording of this piece.
    Arnold (Arnie) Williams
    Sterling Virtuoso Euphonium with Gold Brass bell (Capitol Pops Band, Capitol Pops Tuba Euphonium Quartet)
    Yamaha YBH-831S Neo Baritone Horn (Joyous Brass, First Baritone)
    Yamaha YBH-301M Marching Baritone (Ophir Prison Marching Kazoo Band and Temperance Society LMTD)
    Yamaha YEP-830 Xeno Bass Trombone (Sacramento Concert Band)
    Euphonium: DW Heritage 4AL (main); K&G 3D (Ophir Prison Band)
    Bass Trombone: Ferguson M Series Jeff Reynolds

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magikarp View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	881E06D6-E7E5-4144-AC0B-4B6D1CBAD51E.jpeg 
Views:	60 
Size:	677.5 KB 
ID:	10105

    Hope this helps. I misremembered the key, but this is actually trickier than it looks. I can rattle my way through any number of daft cadenzas but this is proving a little too hard for comfort. What the guy doesn’t realise is that musical shape is not possible when the actual notes are the problem. It’s silly I know, but there we go. To breathe or not to breathe, that is the question.
    So the music in the picture is not what I am hearing in the video that you provided a link to. The two seem entirely unrelated. Am I missing something?
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  10. #10
    Here's something that helps me with stuff like this:

    Practice it several times playing as LOUD AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN. Blow the walls off the practice room. Don't worry about how many breaths you have to take to get through it, or where you put them (you can worry about that later), but when you breathe, take in as much air as you can physically muster, and then take in some more, and push it ALL through the horn before you breathe again. Be dizzy by the time you're done with the passage. But make sure you hit every single note.

    After a few rounds of that, take it back to where it's supposed to be and feel the difference.
    Sean Kissane
    Low Brass Specialist, Paige's Music
    Principal Euphonium, Indianapolis Brass Choir
    Principal Euphonium, Crossroads Brass Band

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