Cadenza Composing Suggestions

[Nate.heron]

Hello all!
I am planning on performing "Heritage" Concerto For Euphonium And Band by Anthony Barfield in around a month and was wanting to add a cadenza to the end of the first movement.

I was wondering if inserting a cadenza into a solo piece that doesn't have one is generally frowned upon. And also if I were to go about this endeavor what tips might anyone have for me in writing one? My initial thoughts would be something with some cool octave stuff but I haven't started writing down any finalized cadenza.

[davewerden]

For my own performances I would not add a cadenza to a modern piece. The composer may feel it disrupts the flow.

My "standard" for performing pieces that are written by modern composers who understand the instrument is to first try everything the composer has marked. For example, even if the printed dynamics don't seem logical, I try to play the dynamics as if *I* had written them. If I simply can't make it work musically, I might modify things a bit. And if there is a written cadenza, I would also do my best to integrate it into my thinking. If I could not do that, or if I thought I had a better idea, I might feel free to change the cadenza. But I would not change the form of of the piece by adding a cadenza.

I can't tell you whether my opinion is universal or even in the majority.

[dsurkin]

For my own performances I would not add a cadenza to a modern piece. The composer may feel it disrupts the flow.
[snip]
I can't tell you whether my opinion is universal or even in the majority.

Can I chime in as a composer/arranger? I agree with Dave, with one caveat: some composers, in some styles, encourage improvisation from the performer. If you are playing such a piece, then the composer's implicit directions control. I would summarize my opinion: realize the composer's vision. If the composer expects it to be played as written, then do so.

I recently listened to Earl Wild's re-orchestration of "Rhapsody in Blue." At first listening, I was pretty horrified. But then I remembered that Gershwin wrote the piece as a two piano score, and Ferde Grofe prepared three different orchestrations (Paul Whiteman original, revised, and symphonic [the most-performed version]). In my imagination, Wild can justify his re-orchestration by saying he went back to the composer's original, and it was the composer's intention for someone else to orchestrate it.

I hope this was helpful.

[John Morgan]

I find this topic interesting. I usually played a solo every year with one of the bands I was in recently. Pretty much a lot of the standard fare to include: Carnival of Venice, Napoli, Believe Me if All Those Endearing Young Charms, Blue Bells of Scotland, La Mandolinata, Czardas, Morceau Symphonique, Concert Polka, Rhapsody for Euphonium, Midnight Euphonium, Gabriel's Oboe, The Devil's Tongue, and quite a few others.

I mostly did play the written cadenzas and usually did not add new ones. But somewhat recently, I have diverged a little from what is written. I changed the cadenzas somewhat, usually to favor my strengths, but mostly leaving it close to the original. But I have also added cadenzas where there were none, mainly at the end or beginning of solos. I added one at the end of the final (3rd) variation of Carnival of Venice (the Herbert L. Clarke version). I also changed up the 1st variation a little, in fact I had several different versions for the 1st variation, and I would change them at each performance (when I played solos with this band, I typically would play the solo a dozen or so times for a series of concerts). My director was highly amused every time I changed the 1st variation line a little bit. I also completely changed the cadenza at the start of Carnival of Venice to something not even close to what was written. However, it does end with the exact same thing as the original. So, I guess I diverge then come back to the original most times.

I suppose this could be called bad form, but for years I played solos precisely as written, cadenzas and all. I just figured that I would add a little bit of my own ideas and strengths to some of these, and they do seem to be received quite well (granted, by an audience that probably does not know the difference between the original and what I offer up).

[Magikarp]

That seems a more than a little conceited to me. Is it not possible that the composer knows precisely how the piece works? It's also a concerto - why do you need to add MORE euphonium to a euphonium concerto? Is it not difficult enough? If it's too easy then play the Jukka Linkola or Bourgeois concerti.

This is not the same as Bob Childs adding the "Wall Of Death" cadenza to the start of Carnival Of Venice, which in itself is an horrendously bastardised re-arrangement of an ancient air varie. I'll admit I have altered one or two things in a solo - going to a top C sharp at the end of Rhapsody For Euphonium rather than get stranded on a top A that lasts ages, but I wouldn't dream of changing the actual musical content simply to show off. If you have musical ideas that you feel would benefit the piece, give the composer a call and tell him.

[davewerden]

I'll admit I have altered one or two things in a solo - going to a top C sharp at the end of Rhapsody For Euphonium rather than get stranded on a top A that lasts ages, but I wouldn't dream of changing the actual musical content simply to show off. If you have musical ideas that you feel would benefit the piece, give the composer a call and tell him.

Speaking of which, a friend was performing that piece a few years ago and had the same idea. I checked with the composer and he was all for it! (But with a living composer, it is still good form to ask.)

[Magikarp]

I agree, I should have asked before doing it, but it was something I'd heard done on every recording so copied what I'd heard. As I get older and hopefully more sensible (!) I'd not do it without permission. If I was playing it now I'd stay on the A but insist the piano player or conductor avoid going full MGM at the end because it can be a VERY long note in the wrong hands!

[RickF]

This is an interesting topic for sure. Many composers are not around anymore to ask their permission if it's alright to add a cadenza. Dean mentioned "Rhapsody in Blue" and I was reminded of the story I read that the clarinet 'octave gliss' near the beginning was never written by Gershwin. After he heard it played that way he wanted it played that way forever. But that's not the same as adding a cadenza.

[John Morgan]

That seems a more than a little conceited to me. Is it not possible that the composer knows precisely how the piece works? It's also a concerto - why do you need to add MORE euphonium to a euphonium concerto? Is it not difficult enough? If it's too easy then play the Jukka Linkola or Bourgeois concerti.

This is not the same as Bob Childs adding the "Wall Of Death" cadenza to the start of Carnival Of Venice, which in itself is an horrendously bastardised re-arrangement of an ancient air varie. I'll admit I have altered one or two things in a solo - going to a top C sharp at the end of Rhapsody For Euphonium rather than get stranded on a top A that lasts ages, but I wouldn't dream of changing the actual musical content simply to show off. If you have musical ideas that you feel would benefit the piece, give the composer a call and tell him.

I have to admit the solos that I have changed up a bit were written by dead people. To avoid any ruckus. There is zero conceit in what I do. Most of the time I make them simpler or shorter (per my director asking me to shorten the piece). If it sounds like this is standard fare for me, it probably isn't. I have done this with perhaps 5 or fewer pieces over many years of playing, with Carnival of Venice getting most of the attention. I have heard literally a bazillion versions of this piece with countless different cadenzas.

My copy of Rhapsody for Euphonium shows the solo part ending (in treble clef) on an A, then going to an "optional" C#, so it is already in the music, unless it wasn't in your particular copy. Perhaps Mr. Curnow added it after hearing the suggestions for it.

This altering of tunes brings up something else. What about singers who sing a song written by someone who wrote the song and take liberties with the melody or rhythm or key or something else different from the original? Sometimes that actually bugs me to hear one of my favorite songs sung by someone who completely alters the song. (Guess this is an argument for not changing up pieces I play, but cadenzas seem somewhat different to me). I suppose that those singers or their agents or someone would have to get permission from the composer to make an "arrangement" of their piece. And what about singers who can't help themselves and feel the need to sing the high note at the end of the National Anthem then go higher (which isn't written)? Okay, this whole paragraph is making me rethink my altering cadenzas a little, maybe.

[iMav]

I’ve always felt that candenzas, by their very nature, allow for variance of interpretation.