Cadenza Composing Suggestions

[CousinJack]

I would ask the composer. As a composer myself I personally wouldn't mind if someone added a cadenza to a concerto, should I ever write one, but as Anthony Barfield is still alive you should see if you can track down his email and ask.

[dsurkin]

[snip]This altering of tunes brings up something else. What about singers who sing a song written by someone who wrote the song and take liberties with the melody or rhythm or key or something else different from the original? [snip].

Here's one for consideration: "What a Wonderful World" as sung by Louis Armstrong. The written melody to the first line "I see trees of green" is C-E-F-A-C. Armstrong sings C-C-F-F-C. I consider Armstrong's change to be brilliant and his rendition touches me like few other songs I've heard. There's also the 1931 recording of "Stardust" where he plays the melody mostly as written on the trumpet but when he sings the verse he sings most of it on the dominant and submediant.

John, I mostly agree with you: I've heard singers change melodies to suit their voices (avoiding difficult passages) or to suit their music taste (variable), and most of the time I think the changes are musically inferior. But whenever I hear Armstrong, I think, "that's right."

[John Morgan]

Here's one for consideration: "What a Wonderful World" as sung by Louis Armstrong. The written melody to the first line "I see trees of green" is C-E-F-A-C. Armstrong sings C-C-F-F-C. I consider Armstrong's change to be brilliant and his rendition touches me like few other songs I've heard. There's also the 1931 recording of "Stardust" where he plays the melody mostly as written on the trumpet but when he sings the verse he sings most of it on the dominant and submediant.

John, I mostly agree with you: I've heard singers change melodies to suit their voices (avoiding difficult passages) or to suit their music taste (variable), and most of the time I think the changes are musically inferior. But whenever I hear Armstrong, I think, "that's right."

You're right. I also love the Louie Armstrong version of "What a Wonderful World"! And I hadn't even noticed the change of the melody line, it just seemed so right.

Changing songs of course is really common in jazz and almost expected.

One of my all-time favorite songs is "Over the Rainbow", and I usually frown on any singers who change up the melody. But, I came across a version (changed) of this piece that I absolutely love. It is the Israel Kaʻanoʻi Kamakawiwoʻole (or IZ for short) version of "Over the Rainbow". I first heard that song at the end of a movie that starred Sean Connery called "Finding Forrester". And I saw that movie in a theater, and this version of "Over the Rainbow" played after it ended. I usually book out of theaters when the show is over, but when I heard this piece, I couldn't move, it was so nice. I sat down and listened to the whole thing. So, there you go, just when I say I don't like songs changed from their original, you showed me one I do like, and I have this one.

And IZ also sings a version of "Over the Rainbow" mixed in with "What a Wonderful World". Imagine that! Go here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Ooxpz0Eqk I really fell in love with his singing. Too bad he died way too young in his 30's. At one point, he weighed north of 700 pounds, and he died of respiratory failure.

[DaveBj]

John, I mostly agree with you: I've heard singers change melodies to suit their voices (avoiding difficult passages) or to suit their music taste (variable), and most of the time I think the changes are musically inferior. But whenever I hear Armstrong, I think, "that's right."

Yes, this happens all the time in popular music, and in gospel music as well. And it's not just singers; songwriters do it to their own material. One example -- Squire Parsons wrote "Sweet Beulah Land," a song that is known all over the Southern Gospel world. He has been singing it in his concerts for over 40 years, but nowadays his performed version is all over the place, in comparison with the published version.

I do the same thing when I play arrangements of gospel and pop songs. Typically I do the first verse-chorus straight, and then I start having fun. You can hear examples on my YT channel.

However, when I'm playing published works, I stick pretty much to the script. I did cut the cadenza out of the Capuzzi "Andante Moderato" (sorry, Dave), because I was having trouble with the timing of the recorded accompaniment.

But I do like cadenzas; I wrote two of them into my own original piece, "Uff-Da Polka". Do I play them as written? Umm . . . I don't really know

[davewerden]

However, when I'm playing published works, I stick pretty much to the script. I did cut the cadenza out of the Capuzzi "Andante Moderato" (sorry, Dave), because I was having trouble with the timing of the recorded accompaniment.

No problem! My "living or dead" rule is only for adding a cadenza. I use my own discretion when deciding whether to modify a cadenza in a living composer's work. In that case, I try to stay with the overall "mood" of the original cadenza...most times.

As the captain said in "Pirates of the Caribbean" when he was called on a rule: "It's more of a guideline, really."

[djwpe]

As the commissioner of the piece in question, I’m not terribly keen on the idea of adding a cadenza to an already long and difficult piece. But I passed the idea on to Anthony Barfield. I’ll follow up with his response if any.

Don

[Snorlax]

Speaking of modern non-warhorse compositions...If someone adds a cadenza to a piece of music and the cadenza turns out to be poor, the composer's reputation may be damaged if people hear the bad cadenza and decide not to buy/perform a piece based upon that. Rare as that might be, I'd hate to see a composer or a composer's estate lose even one sale because of someone else's lack of taste and discretion.
I haven't played "warhorse" solos in 40 years or so, but when I did, I took liberties but always made reference to previous thematic material--to me, that should be the essence of a cadenza.

[Nate.heron]

As the commissioner of the piece in question, I’m not terribly keen on the idea of adding a cadenza to an already long and difficult piece. But I passed the idea on to Anthony Barfield. I’ll follow up with his response if any.

Don

Thank you for the help. One thing to note is that my band is only able to perform the first movement of the piece already because of time restraints (and frankly musicians ability.)

[Magikarp]

Thank you for the help. One thing to note is that my band is only able to perform the first movement of the piece already because of time restraints (and frankly musicians ability.)

I'd be playing a different piece then. Picking something too hard, is doing no justice to the composer, the soloist, the ensemble, or the presumably paying audience.

Play something easier, play it with breathtaking ease and panache, and blow them away. Nobody wants to hear a struggle.

[djwpe]

Thank you for the help. One thing to note is that my band is only able to perform the first movement of the piece already because of time restraints (and frankly musicians ability.)

Anthony, Demondrae, and I touched base on this today. We all agree it’s a bad idea, and suggest that you don’t add the cadenza.

On another note, I don’t think the first movement stands alone well. The second and third do, and in fact, the second movement was written to be accessible so that I could perform it as a stand-alone piece (thanks, Anthony).

I also hope you’ve purchased the score and parts from Anthony for this performance?

Don

[Nate.heron]

I'm sorry.

My group has been rehearsing the first movement for a couple of months now and that is what we will be performing. My director and I both agreed that the first movement sounded well enough to perform it on its own. We decided against the third movement because of the technical ability of the ensemble and against the second because as a mediocre high school band they don't have the key signature under their fingers.

I would like to reiterate that this is a high school ensemble and I am only 17 years old. This is not a grand performance with paying attendees, it's just a regular school concert.

With that said, yes I have purchased the piece from Mr. Barfield and I will not be including a cadenza in the performance.

[aroberts781]

This has been a pretty interesting discussion to follow. I think it is great that people shared their ideas on cadenzas, and it is a really unique thing about this forum that this community was able to engage through Don with both the composer and Demondrae about their thoughts on the matter.

To Nate, best of luck with your performance! If I could give my high school self advice on a solo performance it would be practice it a lot, focus practice on the parts that you don't play well. Practice entering/exiting the stage, taking a bow, acknowledging the band afterwards, etc... as those are important flourishes that can enhance a solo performance from an audience perspective. And then play the piece as well as you can and present yourself and the group confidently!