John Packer 274 and 374 review/comparison

[iMav]

Hallo Larry, by now you have had the two JPs side-by-side for a bit... Value proposition aside, which eupho do you prefer, and for what parameters/reasons?

I still want to get some "external ears" to chime in locally...school is starting back up this week, so I'll have a chance to get into our concert hall and have some folks listen and, perhaps, get some decent recordings in a large, acoustically-friendly space.

As far as playability is concerned...both provide a bit more resistance than the Adams E3. Which, honestly, I like (hard to describe though). It "feels" like I can project better with the 374. Both play quite similar and I haven't noted any significant intonation differences between the two. I have the trigger on my 374 and though I haven't used it much yet, I think I will chalk that up to a positive/advantage.

I'll add more to this thread as I have opportunity to do so. A couple of band mates play on 274s...so I may have them try out the 374 for a session and see what their thoughts are as well.

[guidocorona]

What tonal difference have you detected across the four-octave range behind the bell this far?

G.

[iMav]

Feels like I can play "bigger" behind the the 374. Not sure if I am expressing that right. Feels like I could more easily over-blow with the 274 as opposed to the 374. Aside from that overall projection observation, I can't tell much of a difference. They both seem to produce very similar sound to me.

I have been playing mostly on the 374 lately. I think this week I will switch it up.

[Richard III]

To me the 274 sounds like a poor imitation of what I think a euphonium should sound like. It sounds lacking in resonance. I've played that horn and I decidedly disliked it for sound, intonation and slotting. I thought its upper range was abysmal. When you play the 374, it is approaching a fuller sound and I think is the better horn for you of the two.

[ivanhouston]

Does the ACB Doubler have a .580 bore? I thought I saw that on this forum or on their website. I measured my JP274 bore at .590, but I have also seen the JP274 incorrectly listed online as having a .580 bore. Maybe an earlier version of the horn had a .580 bore? Stock pictures of the JP274 show a slightly different mouth pipe design. It's not bowed out at the end like the current JP274 (hard to describe).
That's interesting/neat that the ACB Doubler and JP274 could be the same instrument.

[iMav]

Does the ACB Doubler have a .580 bore? I thought I saw that on this forum or on their website. I measured my JP274 bore at .590, but I have also seen the JP274 incorrectly listed online as having a .580 bore. Maybe an earlier version of the horn had a .580 bore? Stock pictures of the JP274 show a slightly different mouth pipe design. It's not bowed out at the end like the current JP274 (hard to describe).
That's interesting/neat that the ACB Doubler and JP274 could be the same instrument.

Of course, these specs have been shown to be wrong.

[ivanhouston]

Interesting, Larry. Here is the description of the ACB Doubler:

It's not that concerning to me, just something I was interested in pointing out!

[ChristianeSparkle]

I probably shouldn't have been surprised, I couldn't really tell much of a difference between the 2 recordings! I do kind of slightly hover towards the 374

As far as playability is concerned...both provide a bit more resistance than the Adams E3. Which, honestly, I like (hard to describe though). It "feels" like I can project better with the 374. Both play quite similar and I haven't noted any significant intonation differences between the two. I have the trigger on my 374 and though I haven't used it much yet, I think I will chalk that up to a positive/advantage.
.

I definitely noticed the resistance on my 274 back then and I think I much prefer my Yamaha Neo's less resistance.

Would definitely love to hear more recordings from you of the 374 when you end up finding that place to record!

[iMav]

I was reading on the facebook group "euphonium players," and someone wrote: "I have an XXXXXXXXX, which they have told me is a Packer 274, which has the same issue, ca. 4 cents flat. For various reasons, I kept the horn and adjust the pitch with my embouchure." Do you know if this is true? I kind of squinted at some photos on line and am just curious if they're the same instrument.

I also happen to have a (make sure you get this long name right) a Schiller Custom Class Elite IV in silver plate. This particular Schiller is basically the same as the JP 274.

I think the John Packer claim that they "don't do stencils" may be debunked. The initial nuance (from the JP camp) was that their horns are made in a Chinese factory dedicated to making their horns...and that they just sell THEIR HORNS, unlabeled to other retailers...who stencil their own brands on them. So, their horns are not stencils, but they are "stenciled" by others... However................

It has been stated emphatically by an authoritative source from one of the other retailers that their horn is NOT a JP stencil, but does come from the same factory (they don't buy from JP, but from the factory). (which seems to be the same claim by Jim Laabs regarding their "custom class elite" horn.) If these claims are to be believed (Jim Laabs Music is not to be trusted IMHO, but the other source is trusted by this community), then the JP horns, the other retailer horn, and the Schiiler-branded horn are ALL stencil horns (which is NOT a bad thing...ESPECIALLY considering this line of VERY GOOD horns!).

The continual obfuscation is odd to me.

[guidocorona]

Hmmm... I am not sure if the Schiller and the JP are really cloned siblings.... Specs for the Schiller Custom Shop Elite IV do not seem to match the JP274:


Schiller Custom Shop Elite IV Compensating Euphonium – Gold
• 12.28″ Bell
• Dual Bore .571″ – .661″


Conversly, I have found the following specs for the JP274:
Bell Size: Yellow Brass 279.4mm (11")
Bore: 15mm-16.8mm (.590"-.661")


Best, G.