John Packer 274 and 374 review/comparison

[iMav]

Well, there you go. The bell on the JP374 IS bigger than the bell on the JP274.

Website is INCORRECT!

Attachment 9782

[ivanhouston]

Yeah! There are a few sites that could use some updated specs. The weight listed for the 274/374 is correct I believe.

[ivanhouston]

My personal take: I LOVE the 274, it compares very well to the 1992 967 Sovereign I have. I also like the 374. To me it's heavier, darker, and may loose some of the "prettiness" due to sounding more robust.

[iMav]

My personal take: I LOVE the 274, it compares very well to the 1992 967 Sovereign I have. I also like the 374. To me it's heavier, darker, and may loose some of the "prettiness" due to sounding more robust.

So the bell size and bell material have the effects on sound that one would expect. (at least generally)

[ivanhouston]

Long Post!
This is another answer I received some time ago from DF Music regarding the JP278 & 378 tubas, but I believe it can apply to the 274 & 374 euphoniums:

While the bore and bell size are the same the JP378 has a lead pipe designed by Sterling which provides improved feel and response. The JP378 also has a hand spun bell, versus a machine spun bell. Hand spun bells have a different resonance that is preferable by most players. The 378 also comes with a slightly different case but they are both excellent cases, the 278 case is just a little lighter and a touch bulkier in design, but nothing major. The last difference is the 80/20 brass. I'm not sure how familiar you are with brass so I apologize if you already know some of this.

Brass is a metal alloy meaning it is composed of different metals. The main 2 components used in most brass instruments are Copper and Zinc. In 80/20 brass it's 80% copper 20% zinc. The JP278 is 70/30 brass. The more Zinc you put into the brass the harder and more brittle it gets. There is a fine line between hard enough to maintain structure and too hard that it is brittle. Many inexpensive imported instruments use Brass with lower levels of copper (copper is expensive) to save money. Typically below 60% copper. The metals tend to crack easy especially around bends and braces and is nearly impossible to repair if dented and bent.

80/20 brass is very common for high end instruments as it is strong enough to withstand wear but also great resonance and is malleable enough to be repaired and worked on if dented or damaged. 70/30 is also a good mix but does lack some of the depth and warmth of the 80/20 in terms of sound. This is why the 378 is made from the higher end brass but also one of the reasons it costs more.

[comebackplayer]

I thought a bit about this when I bought my XO. I'd watched the Matonizz reviews and he had described both the XO and the Adams as not projecting as well. There's been the recent discussion here on "big euphoniums" (bells above 12 inches, over 10 or 12 pounds, etc.). To me I think these instruments have the more tuba like, fuller sound. I love playing my euphonium and like the sound, but I could definitely see the difference in size, weight and material accounting for people's mixed feelings about the difference between the two instruments. On trumpet, a smaller bell almost always projects better/has more "core" and this is also part of the difference in sound between baritone and euphonium, right? But bigger bells are also often more fun for the player, since you can hear your playing more clearly and the sound has more spread and depth.

On the yellow v. red brass: I understand the difference in types of brass, but coming from trumpet, JP's description feels a bit gimmicky to me. The classic professional trumpets have usually been made using yellow brass, and variations (gold brass, red brass, copper, sterling silver, titanium blends, carbon fiber) tend to be smaller lines. I've never heard anyone refer to red brass as higher quality before this. I also can't believe there's a huge difference in material cost or workability, but maybe I'm wrong.

[iMav]

The “high grade” terminology for red brass is not a music industry term…but one taken from the metal alloy world. It is terminology used by that industry. Higher copper content brass simply IS considered higher grade brass.

Its relative “quality”, specifically in regards to sound, projection, etc is certainly a matter of taste (and is only one of several factors effecting those qualities on a horn).

BTW, the various brass type descriptions were taken from Austin Custom Brass’s website…specifically on their page where you can customize your own Adams horn. So, not John Packer’s characterization but either ACB or Adams’.

[comebackplayer]

I just thought it was a funny term. When I search trombonechat or trumpetherald or this page that phrase ("high grade brass") doesn't appear. It does show up on Alibaba so it makes sense that it comes from manufacturing/exporting. I watched some of the JP videos and they described as if it's a special brass, but it's quite common in brass instruments.

[Sara Hood]

Well, there you go. The bell on the JP374 IS bigger than the bell on the JP274.

Website is INCORRECT!]

Or the website rounds their numbers. The difference between 11.8 inches 12.24 inches is not even half an inch. I can easily see either of those numbers being rounded to 12 inches for simplicity of communication and the ease of the folks developing the advertising copy and/or website. Can any of you spot a difference of 0.44 inches in circumference between two circles by just eye balling it? I don't think that I would unless I had both in front of me at the time and I was deliberately looking for differences.

I am an accountant by profession and exactness in numbers is something I stand behind. But even to me, this quarter inch rounding in either direction for the horn bells is no big deal (laughing/teasing). Now if we were talking about the thickness of the metal making up our horn, or the size of the valve casings and/or pistons, that would be a different story. In those places a hundredth (0.01) of an inch makes a difference.

- Sara

[TheJH]

Half an inch is a full centimeter, especially if you have both horns next to eachother, it's kinda easy to see the difference... if you look from above.
From the side, probably not so much.