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Thread: New Valve Oil to Test!

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by enhite View Post
    I'm someone who has had difficulty with synthetic valve oils. My spit seems to cause the synthetic oils (Hetmann, Yamaha, etc.) to "gunk up." I would be interested if the Houghton Horns oil is any different for people like me.
    Are you saying that you do NOT get the gunk with petroleum oil? For me it seems able to show up with either.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
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  2. #12
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    Is the "Slide Oil 5" appropriate for trombone slides? (or do they have a product for such usage?)

    Also, on my Adams E3, the second valve slide is loose enough that it has simply fallen out a couple of times while playing. Would you recommend the (what I assume to be) thicker tuning slide grease (as opposed to the gel)?
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    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

  3. #13
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    Hopefully, I'll be another happy customer!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by iMav View Post
    Is the "Slide Oil 5" appropriate for trombone slides? (or do they have a product for such usage?)
    I have only just heard of the company, and the only products I have are the 3 shown in the photo. So I'm clueless about the other products.

    Quote Originally Posted by iMav View Post
    Also, on my Adams E3, the second valve slide is loose enough that it has simply fallen out a couple of times while playing. Would you recommend the (what I assume to be) thicker tuning slide grease (as opposed to the gel)?
    I assume a thicker grease would be the solution, but I don't know how the gel fits in. However, in the category of slide greases I have found that synthetics seems to hold up better, so I'd try a thick synthetic tuning slide lubricant on your 2nd slide.

    BTW, I'm assuming your slide is pushed all the way in. There is so little grabbing area on the short leg that the 2nd slides on euphoniums don't do well if they are pulled. On the range of Besson/Sterling/Adams euphoniums I have had, I've experienced 2nd slides that are loose, just right, and tight. The variance seemed greater than on the other valve slides, and stories of 2nd slides coming out during performances are as old as time! So it would be good to experiment and find the right lube for anyone whose 2nd slide is loose.

    BTW2, in cases where the 2nd slide is tight, I still like a synthetic lube, though a thinner one would be good. But in the event the 2nd slide gets stuck, it is possible to hold the horn somewhat level and blow the water through to the main slide. In that sense, a stuck 2nd slide is not as "fatal" to a performance as is a loose one that falls out!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
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  5. #15
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    Yes, the slide is all the way in.

    I will try a thicker grease.
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    Valley City Community Band
    Valley City State University Concert Band
    2024 North Dakota Intercollegiate Band (you're never too old!)


    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by iMav View Post
    Is the "Slide Oil 5" appropriate for trombone slides? (or do they have a product for such usage?)

    Also, on my Adams E3, the second valve slide is loose enough that it has simply fallen out a couple of times while playing. Would you recommend the (what I assume to be) thicker tuning slide grease (as opposed to the gel)?
    Hi Larry,

    With regard to Hetmans, the Hetmans 7.5 is better than Hetmans 8 (which is the grease). The 8 is more solid, but it is much less sticky and much slicker than the 7.5. This Houghton product appears to come in only a 7 and 8 (which supposedly corresponds to Hetmans 7 and 8), so I would go for the Houghton 7 or just use Hetmans 7.5.

    Mike

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Are you saying that you do NOT get the gunk with petroleum oil? For me it seems able to show up with either.
    The "gunk" I get from using synthetic oils is more immediate. Of course petroleum based oils can cause build up, but, for me at least, it occurs over a longer time period.

  8. #18
    UPDATE, AND CONCLUSION.

    This has been somewhat confusing, but I untangled everything finally (more at the end of this post). In short, the #1 oil is the best synthetic I have tested. It is very smooth and very thin. Valve action is great, and there is surely no more gunk deposited from this oil than from the Hetmann I was using for so long. For those who like synthetic oils, you really should try the Josef Meinlschmidt oils.

    On the other hand... Gail Robertson tested the same oil and reported lots of gunk (more at the end of this post).

    The slide grease is also very nice, and is my first choice now. I will say I don't think it lasts quite as long as others I have tried, like Monster & Hetmann. But, probably for the same reason, the slides seems smoother now.

    That's the end of the review. Now...

    After years of suspecting something I have concluded I'm right. FOR ME, no synthetic seems to work when I get lots of moisture in the horn. The last few weeks my basement has been pretty cool, so I get lots of condensation. And along with that, the valves get sluggish sometimes between my daily oiling. My conclusion is that synthetic oils can't handle a lot of moisture. And maybe that is the problem for Gail as well.

    For the time being, I'm going to test Al Cass, which I have not used for a couple decades or more (I bought new bottles!).

    ALSO, I'm officially no longer recommending Blue Juice. I switched to it a week ago, and today I had quite a bit of gunk to clean out of the bottom caps. That is not conclusive - some may have started to happen at the end of my synthetic round. However, in a conversation with two very sharp sales folk at Schmitt, I have a better handle on the problems some people have with Blue Juice. They reported that over time it can cause wear on the brass (probably not on stainless steel, but maybe on monel??). It has a detergent that could help with some things, I suppose. On the other hand, if the detergent really is removing impurities, what happens to them? I suspect the end up in the bottom cap. There is some kind of anti-bacterial agent according to Blue Juice. I'm not sure if there are drawbacks to that, but I am pretty sure that I'm less in need of its help because I'm cleaning the horn every day. So we'll see if Al Cass satisfies my cool-room needs!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  9. #19
    Oh, and in addition to bringing home 3 bottles of Al Cass from Schmitt Music, I also bought a bottle of Monster Oil's organic oil. At some point I'll do some testing on that one.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  10. #20
    This seems like an older track. When I got my virtuoso, I switched to Blue Oil; no issues so far, but the previous owner was using Resilience Oils "True Synthetic Valve Oil #1 Light". Wondering if I shoud maybe go back to that since it was his choice oil and I have about a quarter of the bottle left. Anyone have an opinion on Resilience Oils?
    Arnold (Arnie) Williams
    Sterling Virtuoso Euphonium with Gold Brass bell (Capitol Pops Band, Capitol Pops Tuba Euphonium Quartet)
    Yamaha YBH-831S Neo Baritone Horn (Joyous Brass, First Baritone)
    Yamaha YBH-301M Marching Baritone (Ophir Prison Marching Kazoo Band and Temperance Society LMTD)
    Yamaha YEP-830 Xeno Bass Trombone (Sacramento Concert Band)
    Euphonium: DW Heritage 4AL (main); K&G 3D (Ophir Prison Band)
    Bass Trombone: Ferguson M Series Jeff Reynolds

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