Going back to basics - has anyone else done this?

[CousinJack]

Earlier this year I started umming and erring over mouthpiece choices. I own two mouthpieces currently: an Alliance DC2 and a Wick SM4X. I played the DC2 exclusively until coming out of the pandemic and the SM4X from when I was looking for something easier to play as band started rehearsing again after the pandemic (c. Sept 2019). I enjoyed the security of playing on the SM4X, but missed the tone, comfort, and low range of the DC2. When we started rehearsing Sparke's Tallis Variations, which had a lot of low range work for the 2nd euph part, I tried it out again but found after a week or two of practice my high range and pitching would suffer so would switch back to the SM4X. After changing band a couple of months ago (and getting a new band instrument) after moving I tried to go back to the DC2 again but found that the same thing happened, switching back to the SM4X after a couple of weeks.

I am not fully satisfied with either mouthpiece. The DC2 is very comfortable on my face and makes a great sound, but playing becomes much less secure and the high range goes and I don't have enough time to get back into it properly to fix these issues. The SM4X is less comfortable, sometimes even feeling a bit small (but I'm not sure if that's the cup shape or the rim size or the weight), but is much more secure in general playing. I'm not sure what exactly physically is wrong with either mouthpiece: the DC2 has a wider, rounder rim and the SM4X smaller, flatter one; the cup depths are pretty similar but the DC2 is much more of a C shaped cup against the V shape of the SM4X; and the SM4X is weirdly marginally heavier. I imagine either the DC3 (smaller diameter but C shape cup) or the SM3X (bigger diameter, V shape cup) would be better for me but I can't afford to buy both to try them out, and with Trevada music sadly closing there isn't a shop close to me that stocks both.

So I have come up with a solution: I have bought a Wick 4AL. It is the baseline euphonium mouthpiece for brass banders, and I know a few people in the school of thought that you don't need anything else (they also happen to be very good players who sound better than me on my more expensive lumps of metal). I am going to play it exclusively until at least after Christmas, before prep for the Area contest in March, and I hope it will act like a control mouthpiece. It should give me a better idea of what I would like in a mouthpiece, and maybe it is what I want in a mouthpiece! Sometimes I wonder if there are too many mouthpieces to choose from and maybe life would be easier if there was less choice

Has anyone else tried this: going back to a "baseline" mouthpiece like a 4AL or 51D? Also please share any mouthpiece journeys, I'm interested to hear how people have ended up where there are!

[Richard III]

I've just gone back to a 51D. But not a Schilke. My Schilke got dented and I wanted something cheaper, so I went Yamaha. If you haven't heard, the Yamaha 51D has the largest backbore of any of my mouthpieces, by a long ways. I've compared it to Wick 4AL, Curry 5G, Helleberg and Alliance DC. Bigger than any of them. Why? Not a clue but I don't think I'll go back to any others now. It has less of the nasal quality of the Schilke, not quite as sonorous as the Alliance DC, but still slots like the Schilke 51D. So a good compromise.

[rgorscak]

Mouthpiece

I have bought and tried probably about 20 mouthpieces. Some seem better on high notes and some on low notes, but I finally realized the Schilke 51D just felt the most comfortable to me, so I am sticking with it. I am playing it on the Adam E3 now but played it on the Besson Prestige 2052 before that. I have even tried the Alliance DC4 that Dave uses. It seemed to bite into my lips.

[UglyGrayDuck]

I played a schilke 51d for along time (most of middle school and all of high school), and now after picking the horn back up 15 years later, I'm doing a little exploring in this aspect. I suppose I'm doing kind of the opposite of "going back to basics" at least for me. Initially I did buy a 52D to start with (i figured I would like a bigger cup because my lips are a bit on the bigger side), but then I got curious and bought a 4AL, and I like that pretty well. I'm curious about some other pieces, and I bought a E3a off ebay the other day so we'll see how that goes. I'm curious about the DC3 and the SM4, personally. I may just end up back at the 4AL at the end of the day. Compared to the 4AL, the 52D just feels too small (I know there's not that great a difference, but it sure feels like it).

That's interesting about the Yamaha 51d, since it seems from the listed specs that it is smaller inner-rim wise, unless schilke measures differently...

[iMav]

The 51D and 52D definitely feel constricting to me / too small.

[franz]

I played for years on the Schilke 51D then, since I played the Prestige in 2007, I experimented on DC2, SM3, 3X, 3U until in K&G I found what is right for me: K&G 3D + is the one that gives me all that I want to get from a mouthpiece.

[TheJH]

I've just gone back to a 51D. But not a Schilke. My Schilke got dented and I wanted something cheaper, so I went Yamaha. If you haven't heard, the Yamaha 51D has the largest backbore of any of my mouthpieces, by a long ways. I've compared it to Wick 4AL, Curry 5G, Helleberg and Alliance DC. Bigger than any of them. Why? Not a clue but I don't think I'll go back to any others now. It has less of the nasal quality of the Schilke, not quite as sonorous as the Alliance DC, but still slots like the Schilke 51D. So a good compromise.

If you say 'compare', is that by eye or actually measuring it? Because from what I remember from the data charts from the manufacturers, the Yamaha 51D should have a backbore of 7.1mm compared to the Wick 4AL's 7.38mm.

[davewerden]

In these discussions, it is hard to not confuse backbore with throat. The throat diameter is an easy measurement. Backbore is tricker...by a lot. Some backbore shapes are more concave and some are more convex between the throat and the end of the shank. The backbore taper can make a huge difference in sound, endurance, and intonation.

[highpitch]

Being somewhat of an outlier, I found the Bach Artisan 5G (not a bit like the regular 5G) tickles my sweet spot the best.

Then again, MP's are a highly personal choice.

[CousinJack]

In these discussions, it is hard to not confuse backbore with throat. The throat diameter is an easy measurement. Backbore is tricker...by a lot. Some backbore shapes are more concave and some are more convex between the throat and the end of the shank. The backbore taper can make a huge difference in sound, endurance, and intonation.

Not to mention that manufacturers don't exactly make the information easily accessible much of the time! In my head it would make sense that backbore is as important as any other part of the mouthpiece

Being somewhat of an outlier, I found the Bach Artisan 5G (not a bit like the regular 5G) tickles my sweet spot the best.

Then again, MP's are a highly personal choice.

They are indeed! I played a 4AM on my Imperial when I had it, and a 4BS is my emergency baritone mouthpiece so I am very familiar with the rim and general feel of a Wick 4. I imagine a 5 doesn't feel too small on a small bore instrument?

I played a schilke 51d for along time (most of middle school and all of high school), and now after picking the horn back up 15 years later, I'm doing a little exploring in this aspect. I suppose I'm doing kind of the opposite of "going back to basics" at least for me. Initially I did buy a 52D to start with (i figured I would like a bigger cup because my lips are a bit on the bigger side), but then I got curious and bought a 4AL, and I like that pretty well. I'm curious about some other pieces, and I bought a E3a off ebay the other day so we'll see how that goes. I'm curious about the DC3 and the SM4, personally. I may just end up back at the 4AL at the end of the day. Compared to the 4AL, the 52D just feels too small (I know there's not that great a difference, but it sure feels like it).

That's interesting about the Yamaha 51d, since it seems from the listed specs that it is smaller inner-rim wise, unless schilke measures differently...

I'd like to try a 51D one day, just because of how ubiquitous it is over in the States. I expect it would just feel very wrong for my brass bander chops the Alliance DC series and all Denis Wick specialist euph mouthpieces are effectively just variations on the 4AL, so if you like the 4AL you would probably find you'd like at least some aspects of the others!

[CousinJack]

A week after it was meant to (Royal Mail are striking currently), my 4AL arrived a couple of days ago. In my personal practice it felt a bit weird, even if I did appreciate the sound I got out of it, but at band last night it came alive. It felt great to play on in that setting and I got some compliments afterwards. I wasn't so consistent pitching on my SM4X, but the 4AL holds its weight very differently and it was only my second day with it so it's to be expected!

Overall I was impressed with how easy it was to play and how great it sounded in a band setting, and I think I will keep playing it for some time now!

[Richard III]

Combining intonation quirks of individual horns is a challenge for me. My former section mate used a Willson which had quirks that when matched with my horn required a 51D to best line up. My new section mate has a Holton non-comp that has different intonation quirks. So now I'm play a Helleberg mouthpiece. That brings us closer together. You never know what the best match is until you try them. One of the advantages of that mouthpiece is the slotting in the upper range.