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Thread: Another weird intonation issue

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
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    Intermountain West in USA
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    Another weird intonation issue

    OK, here's another weird intonation issue I'm having. Let's say I have tuned up and I'm able to play a high Bb concert pitch (Bb4) in tune. When I play an A natural (2nd valve) it's horribly out of tune according to my tuner app on my iphone. When I say "horribly" I mean almost a quarter step flat! Ab (1st valve) is also flat, but not quite a bad as A natural. And I can't lip those notes into tune no matter how hard I try.

    The thing is, 2nd valve and 1st valve notes are fine in other registers.

    Can anyone offer some insight as to what is going wrong?

  2. #2
    It could be partly the mouthpiece/horn match, but...

    Those 2 notes being flat is a factor on some horns (Willson 2900 for example), and the A being flat is found on many horns. For the A, I have often used 12, depending on the context. I can lip 2nd in tune most times, but 12 works better when I want a bright sound. On Ab, 23 MIGHT work, but it's not as useful in my experience.

    Deeper mouthpieces and really wide mouthpiece can bring out this defect.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    It could be partly the mouthpiece/horn match, but...

    Those 2 notes being flat is a factor on some horns (Willson 2900 for example), and the A being flat is found on many horns. For the A, I have often used 12, depending on the context. I can lip 2nd in tune most times, but 12 works better when I want a bright sound. On Ab, 23 MIGHT work, but it's not as useful in my experience.

    Deeper mouthpieces and really wide mouthpiece can bring out this defect.
    That's very helpful. Thanks.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
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    1+3 also works for high A. My high A on my Adams is a bit flat, but I can lip it with a little effort. 1+3 works pretty well but is not as reliable to hit from a distance for me.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Intermountain West in USA
    Posts
    141
    Thanks for all the comments so far.

    I received the Kelly 5G mouthpiece today, and it made no difference for intonation for me on my horn for the high A natural and high A flat.

    Also, in looking of my collection of mouthpieces it looks like I have now have one Kelly 5G and one Kelly 51D and two unlabeled ones described below.

    I have one unlabeled metal mouthpiece that came with my Chinese stencil horn and one unlabeled plastic mouthpiece that came with my plastic euphonium. However, on careful inspection both of those unlabeled mouthpieces seem to be virtually indistinguishable in depth and rim diameter compared to my Kelly 5. The unlabeled mouthpieces also have the same intonation issues as my 5G on my Chinese stencil horn, so I probably wasted some money buying the Kelly 5G. However, I wouldn't have known that without buying the Kelly 5G, so I guess it wasn't a complete waste of money, just mostly a waste of money.

    I could try to find some other (smaller/shallower) mouthpieces, but I'm afraid my tone might begin to sound too trombonish for a euphonium.

    I tried several alternate fingerings, and some of them helped a little, but only a little, and I can't lip any of the alternate fingerings into tune on those notes, not even close.

    Maybe I should save up my money for a few years and buy an Adams.

    Or maybe maybe I just need stronger lips.

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