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Thread: Q41 vs a Globe stamp

  1. #1

    Q41 vs a Globe stamp

    Howdy folks! I had taken about 15 years hiatus from the horn, and have been playing again for about a month and a half. I have fallen in love with playing euphonium all over again, and have been doing some research on the current brands since I've been feeling like I want to move on from the rented jp174il.
    As luck may have it, I had already planned to fly into Baltimore for other reasons, so I took the opportunity to visit Baltimore brass (whom I see is one of the forum sponsors) and Chuck Levin's to play their horns and possibly purchase one to ship home.

    Both stores were great experiences! BB was very chill, they let me browse around, pick up and play whichever horn, and answered any questions I had. At Chuck Levin's, Aaron gave a very friendly and personal experience. He essentially pulled out and oiled up the 4 horns they had available, gave the run down on each of them, and just let me play them to my heart's content.
    So, the horns I was able to play:
    At BB
    -A used meinl weston model
    -A b&h sovereign (a 1979 model, if the serial number doc on the forum is correct)
    -And a jp 274, just as a sanity check
    At Chuck's
    -An Eastman model
    -A willson 2900 (I had to use a small shank to medium shank converter to try, so it may not have been a fair shake)
    -An Adam's e3
    -A shires q41

    Of all those, my too favorites were the sov and the q41.
    The sovereign had really nice, light valves, if a little sluggish on the upstroke which could probably be fixed with a new set of springs and a good oiling. It felt like an absolute dream to play! High notes just popped out effortlessly (I hit the high d# in morceau symphonique no problem or strain), vibrato came so naturally, but even with my so-so ear, I could tell the upper register intonation was awful.
    The q41 felt ALMOST as good as the sovereign, but maybe had a slightly nicer tone to my ears. Valves felt great, sounded great, etc. High notes were a little more of a struggle, but that might have been tired chops as it was the last horn I played.

    I liked the shires so much, I almost bought it on the spot, but figured I should probably give it a little time and thought and weigh it against grabbing the globe stamp.

    If you were in my shoes, what might you do? What are the potential drawbacks of buying a 43 year old horn vs a newer horn? Is $4200-4300 a good price for a Globe stamp sovereign?

    As a side note, I was a little sad that I didn't get along with the e3 that well. It sounded good and felt ok, but the shires and the b&h felt so much better to me.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    My vote would be the S.E.Shires horn…given how much you liked it AND the fact that it is a new horn. (Others here put less stock in new vs used…AND are more knowledgeable than I, so take my advise for what it is worth!)

    I will also mention that I had some excellent correspondence with a Shires rep that nearly swayed me to selecting one of their horns over the E3 I purchased (at a significant pricing differential). Their dedication to quality AND customer satisfaction was apparent…and it doesn’t hurt that they are HQ’ed in the USA. (Boston, MA)

    It also speaks volumes (at least to me) that there is mass adoption by the military bands currently going on with S.E.Shires.
    Euphoniums
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    John Packer 274L

    Larry Herzog Jr.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Farmington Hills, MI
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    Im not up on used horn prices but that seems a lot for a 40 plus year old horn. I played a round stamp Boozey in college and my memories are the sound was lovely but the intonation not so much. We had 3 at school, 2 were very good, responsive and sweet, 1 was far from great. If I were you Id lean to the Shires.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by UglyGrayDuck View Post
    As a side note, I was a little sad that I didn't get along with the e3 that well. It sounded good and felt ok, but the shires and the b&h felt so much better to me.
    That confuses me pretty well! But we may be talking about different "feel" issues. To me, the Adams and Shires are in the same general camp, which is true for most of the new pro horns. Easy blowing and pretty consistent in feel from note to note. Also good in the low 4th-valve register. The B&H is a totally different feel. More resistance, way less good in the low register, but somehow it has a great "singing" feel to it. All 3 horns mentioned here have the attractive qualities.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelSchott View Post
    I’m not up on used horn prices but that seems a lot for a 40 plus year old horn. I played a round stamp Boozey in college and my memories are the sound was lovely but the intonation not so much. We had 3 at school, 2 were very good, responsive and sweet, 1 was far from great. If I were you I’d lean to the Shires
    I agree the Boosey is higher than usual. If it is really good shape, that may be fine, though. 40 years old is not all that significant for a Besson/BH, as long as the valves are good. I still find those horns to be the epitome of sound for my tastes. Intonation is rough on the 6th partial (as it is with many new horns, too). On mine, I used 13, 24, and 4 for the concert Eb, E and F. With that alteration, the intonation was actually quite good overall.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
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  5. #5
    I'm thinking that maybe I didn't have the agr dialed in quite right for the E3, but I did try to find a good position but didn't really find a sweet spot to my knowledge. With both the b&h and the shires, there was an immediate "Yes! This feels right!" A feeling which was backed up by a bit of continued play.

    Anyway, thank you all for your responses! I really wanted a bit of a sanity check and an outside perspective. I think I'm gonna go ahead and snag this Shires!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NYC metro area
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    476
    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    [snip]On mine, I used 13, 24, and 4 for the concert Eb, E and F. With that alteration, the intonation was actually quite good overall.
    Possible typo - was that supposed to be 14 for the concert Eb?
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1 (DE 101XTG9 mouthpiece in the drawer)
    Bach 36B trombone; Bach 6.5AL mouthpiece (pBone on loan to granddaughter)
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    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post
    Possible typo - was that supposed to be 14 for the concert Eb?
    I often make typos, but not this time! 13 worked for the Eb. 14 would have worked also, but it is more tubing to blow through.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Netherlands
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    245
    I can use 13 to play both high Eb and F in tune on my round stamp Sovereign (mostly use 12 for high F though), so I can back up Dave that he did not make a typo
    Also, that globe stamp must be a brother of mine then since mine is also from '79!

  9. #9
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    She arrived yesterday, a day earlier than originally scheduled! Very excited to be playing this horn now! The JP 174 I rented served its purpose, but the Q41 sounds and feels soooo much better.
    The only issue I have at the moment is the second valve tuning slide seems a little snug. Not sure if there's a way to make it a little easier to push in and pull out for spit removal.
    Nicholas
    Shires Q41s
    DW 4AL

  10. #10
    Looks great!

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