FS Besson Euphonium Silver Matt London-Paris-New York with Gig Bag

[simonm29]

hi all
found some Besson euph 1970/1971
https://www.ebay.com/itm/16516289470...mis&media=COPY

any thoughts? many thanks

[davewerden]

From what I can see, this looks like a very decent horn, and the price is in the range I would expect.

It was made at a very good time for Besson quality. Just be aware that horns from that age use the "European" shank mouthpieces (unless someone has changed the receiver for a large shank. (However, I LIKE the feel of the Bessons with that medium receiver - they are very sweet to play!)

[simonm29]

thx Dave
do you know the model maybe?
thx

[davewerden]

thx Dave
do you know the model maybe?
thx

I'm not good with model numbers! Doug Ruby might or one of our other members be able to say with more authority. My own memory says 766. In any case, this horn at the time was the top of the line for Besson.

[highpitch]

Model 181 tickles my memory.

Dennis

[Shinn]

I agree with Dennis - albeit the valve buttons on the advertised horn have been changed and the brass guides appear to have been replaced with black nylon guides. See pages 16 and 17 in the catalogue linked below~

http://yorkmaster.org/yorkmaster/pho...mpo/index.html

Here is a link to a string on the Model 181~

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...1#.Y1J1syUpAWM

[simonm29]

and what now .......
i even ask the seller what model it is, no response yet...from yesterday no response

[highpitch]

He may not know, as they aren't labeled with it.

[aroberts781]

I know it is frustrating waiting for replies from sellers, hopefully they get back to you in a reasonable time.

I think that Dennis and David know what they are talking about regarding the model number. As Dave said, regardless of the actual model number, this horn was the top of the line for its day. It looks like a good horn for a reasonable price, the seller has 100% feedback, the pictures all show that the slides and valves seem to be in pretty good shape. Some people find the original metal guides a little noisy and some people don't prefer the original valve button style so the nylon valve guides and non-original valve buttons might be nice changes.

If you're interested and this is in your budget it seems like a nice horn to me. I don't know what shipping from Germany to Croatia would be like, so maybe consider that as well. If I recall from your previous posts your ideal budget is around 1,500 EUR, so this might be a bit of a stretch, but for a good 4-valve compensating older Besson this is probably a fair price. That opinion is not an expert opinion, just my personal experience in shopping around for used horns. My general sense is that you would have to go with one of the recent Chinese-made clones to get a significantly better price for a 4-valve compensator.

[simonm29]

I know it is frustrating waiting for replies from sellers, hopefully they get back to you in a reasonable time.

I think that Dennis and David know what they are talking about regarding the model number. As Dave said, regardless of the actual model number, this horn was the top of the line for its day. It looks like a good horn for a reasonable price, the seller has 100% feedback, the pictures all show that the slides and valves seem to be in pretty good shape. Some people find the original metal guides a little noisy and some people don't prefer the original valve button style so the nylon valve guides and non-original valve buttons might be nice changes.

If you're interested and this is in your budget it seems like a nice horn to me. I don't know what shipping from Germany to Croatia would be like, so maybe consider that as well. If I recall from your previous posts your ideal budget is around 1,500 EUR, so this might be a bit of a stretch, but for a good 4-valve compensating older Besson this is probably a fair price. That opinion is not an expert opinion, just my personal experience in shopping around for used horns. My general sense is that you would have to go with one of the recent Chinese-made clones to get a significantly better price for a 4-valve compensator.

thank you for your advices!!
can you tell me which one of chinese clone would be "acceptable "
ty

[iMav]

thank you for your advices!!
can you tell me which one of chinese clone would be "acceptable "
ty

If you are in Europe, I guess check out Thomann Music’s line. (Look just like Schiller, Mack Brass, and JP from what I can tell (same model break down and similar pricing).)

[ people are going to start thinking I work for Thomann! ]

[aroberts781]

Simon, I only have personal experience with a few of the clones that are widely available in the US. I owned a Schiller Elite for seven years before I bought a 3-valve Besson New Standard last year. The Schiller horn served me well while I had it. I played a Wessex Dolce for about twenty minutes at their Chicago showroom, and it was a nice horn. I brought my Schiller with me to compare, and they didn't necessarily feel very different to play. I could tell there was a sound difference, but I didn't have an impartial listener to help me evaluate. For what it is worth I never thought my Schiller sounded bad. When I gave my Schiller to it's new owner, they played it for me and I thought they sounded good.

I had a section mate who played a Mack Brass compensating euphonium, and they also sounded good on it.

Plenty of people on this forum, though not all, have good experiences with the Wessex, you could look into whether they ship to Croatia. I think they do. The Schiller comes from a US retailer, Jim Laabs, that is not very well thought of in terms of customer service. They do have an option to get a quote for international shipping, so they might ship to Croatia.

I don't have any experience with Thomann, but I suspect that these days the stencil horns coming from reputable dealers are probably decent horns, as mine was.

[davewerden]

thank you for your advices!!
can you tell me which one of chinese clone would be "acceptable "
ty

In Europe, I would try to get a Wessex. They are somewhat unique with the Chinese clone operations. The have a much closer relationship with the factory, for one thing. They personally visit the factory and inspect all horns before they are shipped. They have also worked on custom mods with the factory. My most recently play-test of a Wessex Dolce was in May, and it still strikes me as a very nice horn in its price range.

Thomann, or any other retailer for that matter, can contract to have a clone made with their logo. But that doesn't mean they are "improving the breed" in any way. I prefer a company that is taking part in the relationship a bit more closely.

[simonm29]

so the seller answered me
the Besson has medium shank and the model is :""""The model is London-Paris-New York, a pre-made model
before the New-Standard.""
anyone knows something about that era bessons euphonium model? thx
i can go till 2k eur , but as Dave mention, to try Wessex Dolce ..... nothing on ebay europe yet

[Sara Hood]

I do not have an answer for you about which model number the Besson horn you are looking at is. I can tell you that the "London-Paris-New York" that the seller responded to you with is a part of the brand stamp that Besson was having their horns labeled with at the time it was manufactured. I have seen several Besson horns with this as a part of the logo on them. Perhaps if you could get the seller to send you a picture of the horn's bell, focusing on any writing, that can help us to identify and date the horn a bit better. Just knowing what the writing says does not tell us much. But a picture of the logo may give some clues. There were a few different versions of the company logo that tended to be used at particular times and contexts.

- Sara