Leaking water valve and buffing the finish

[David S]

I am new to this forum and this is my first post. I am very glad to be allowed to be part of this group.

Just recently purchased a Conn Elkhart forward bell baritone. Best I can determine on the age was that it was built in the early 80's. There are a few minor dents but the finish has the usual corrosion and scratches. Is there a way of safely removing the corrosion without ruining the lacquer?

Also after about 20 - 30 minutes of playing of course I need to empty water. There is 1 valve on the large slide. There is normally water there. I also pull the other slides and empty them. I can still hear gurgling after this so I keep pulling the slides only to find nothing there. I googled this and found it could be a leaking water valve and to change the cork. The cork is so old and hard it could be the original. Planning on replacing it this week. What if I still get the gurgling after changing the cork. Is there any other possible cause?

Thank you for your help with this.

[davewerden]

Welcome to the forum!

We would need to see photos of the corrosion to know what is going on there. In most cases you can't remove it without damaging lacquer, but the lacquer is usually already damaged by the corrosion. That ASSUMES you use the word "corrosion" the same way I do. That's why photos might help.

Do you hear gurgling when you don't press any valves? If so, there may be water trapped in the main tuning slide still. Such things are a matter of physics. Water always seeks the lowest point available to it. The port under the water key has to be pointed straight down when you empty it. That hole could be slightly clogged, so take out the slide and dump it to see if any water remains. If it does, you have to clean out the hole and the slide itself.

If the gurgle is only when you push one of more valves, that narrows down where it can be. There could be a bend that traps it before it gets to the slide for the valve.

[David S]

Dave

Thank you for your response to my post. Sorry about the 1 repeat photo. Learning as I go here on how to post. What I call corrosion is in these photos. Typical of horns that have been used. I am just wanting to see if I can get it to look better and seek how best to care for the horn.

I do not remember hearing the gurgling when I am not pushing on the valves. Will not be able to practice again until this evening and will get back with you on this. Will be replacing the cork in the spit valve anyway. It needs to be replaced.

Thank you for the help

[davewerden]

Hmm. That COULD be pink spotting that has eroded the lacquer. Or it could be some kind of wear & tear. Either way, it appears the lacquer has been ruined in those little round areas. I'm not sure there is any way you could polish that to improve the looks as it stands. Maybe someone else has an idea??

As for the gurgling, look closely at the valve tubing bends. If there is a small bend just before the tube attaches to the valve body, that is a place water could hide. It's pretty easy to spot yourself. Look at each valve tube loop. If you pull the first slide with the horn in its normal-ish playing position, some water could hide in the upper part of that loop. But you should be pressing the valve down before removing the slide, by the way. If the first valve has a gurgle, point the bell downward a bit so any water in the top part of the 1st loop runs down. Imagine where it then is. Turn the horn so that the water moves around the loop towards the slide and keep turning until the slide is pointing roughly down. THEN pull the slide and empty it. That's the basic logic for stubborn water, anyway.

[davewerden]

FYI, I moved this thread to the Maintenance category, which is a better home for it.

[David S]

Dave;

Thank you for moving this to maintenance. That does make sense.
I followed your suggestion on emptying water from my horn and replaced the cork on the water valve yesterday and it did seem to resolve the gurgling issue but I wasn't able to practice very long. The material the "cork" is made of isn't actually cork but a spongy material.

I agree with your opinion on the corrosion or whatever on the horn. It shouldn't have an effect on the tone. Some say it adds to the character of the horn.

So now after over 45 years of not playing any brass instrument I have a tool that seems to be in good working order along with a new mouthpiece that seems to be find also. That is a Blessing 6 1/2 AL. Went through quite a lot of research on the mouthpiece issue and was and am overwhelmed with all the brands and various ways they are made out there. I found your list of mouthpiece brands, etc.. Showed it to my wife to show the complexity. She couldn't believe it. I am sure this will be an ongoing challenge for me.

From this point forward I need to just practice and improve tonal quality, range, reading music, articulation, etc.. I am a newly semi-retiree and this is a bucket list thing. Back in high school I was in a drum and bugle corp, Scarlet Lancers first year then we combined with another in town, Phantoms and changed the name to Continental Ambassadors. This was in Wichita, KS. We had our 50th anniversary/reunion over Memorial Day weekend last year. That sparked my need to play again. Also played sousaphone and upright tuba in band throughout school including college. Found out I have forgotten most of what I knew back then but also finding out it does come back fairly quickly. The main thing is I am enjoying the process with the only reason is pure enjoyment. I will continue to follow your forum and many Youtube videos to learn more.

Thank you