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Thread: Some brands I am considering

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Valley City, North Dakota, USA
    Posts
    379

    Some brands I am considering

    Besson Prestige BE2051 ($9.4k)
    Adams E3 ($8k)
    Willson 2900S ($9.7k)
    S.E.Shires Q41 ($6k)
    Yamaha 642T Neo ($8k)

    The Shires seems to be a great value given the positive feedback Ive heard and the claim (by S.E.Shires) that many US military bands are standardizing on them.

    Thoughts?
    Larry Herzog Jr.
    Adams Custom Series E3 euphonium (Selected model, silver-plated)
    Denis Wick SM4U mouthpiece (gold-plated)

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  2. #2
    Hi, Larry!

    To start things off, consider that the Shires you mention specifically is popular with some of the service band folks because it is (more or less) a new generation of Willson. They had Willson players helping with the prototyping, for example. So if you like Willson, you may like the Shires a bit better.

    I chose Adams from all the brands I have tried (including all on your list) because it had the best response and intonation, AND it had a sound that was as colorful and flexible as the best of the traditional British horns. Adams offers many options, by far more than any of the others. For the best value, I might look at an E3 in .70 metal, and either yellow or gold brass. That would come very close to my own horn and save over $1k in price (as well as being less prone to bell damage, because my sterling silver bell is quite soft).

    But let's see what other folks have to say!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3
    Oh, and you might compare the horns' intonation using this page:

    http://www.dwerden.com/Intonation/

    You can compare more than one at a time. I just ran the above list (having to use a Yamaha 641 because I have not graphed the Neo) all together. The graph with all 5 is a bit cluttered, but just for fun here it is. Click it to see a larger view.

    You can do a more same 2- or 3-horn comparison using the link above.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Valley City, North Dakota, USA
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    379
    So, can you describe the differences you see between the Shires Q41 (or Willson, since they are similar) and the Adams E3. (Basic, seat of the pants, behind the mouthpiece playability differences for YOU.)

    Thanks!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Valley City, North Dakota, USA
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    BTW, your brushed lacquer finish DOES look pretty sweet!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by iMav View Post
    BTW, your brushed lacquer finish DOES look pretty sweet!
    Of course you can order a silver-plated horn with brushed finish to get that kind of look all over. It's a small upcharge, I think.

    Here is the .70 E3 I tested and considered keeping. So I asked for gold satin lacquer to make it special. Still WAY less $$ than the sterling silver:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by iMav View Post
    So, can you describe the differences you see between the Shires Q41 (or Willson, since they are similar) and the Adams E3. (Basic, seat of the pants, behind the mouthpiece playability differences for YOU.)

    Thanks!
    Intonation is shown pretty well in the graph, so that is more than seat-of-the-pants.

    Otherwise...
    The center seemed a bit loose on the Shires, which was actually a surprise. And the tone was not quite as British-like as I want. Valves did not seem very good, but that was almost certainly just newness or display-ness of the horn.

    My review from 2019 is here:
    http://www.dwerden.com/forum/entry.p...niums&comments
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  8. Quote Originally Posted by iMav View Post
    Besson Prestige BE2051 ($9.4k)
    Adams E3 ($8k)
    Willson 2900S ($9.7k)
    S.E.Shires Q41 ($6k)
    Yamaha 642T Neo ($8k)

    The Shires seems to be a great value given the positive feedback I’ve heard and the claim (by S.E.Shires) that many US military bands are standardizing on them.

    Thoughts?
    What is your sound concept? Shires doesn't sound like an Adams. Or a Wilson. The Yamaha sounds like, well, a Yamaha and nothing else. Who do you like listening to? What do they play? What kind of music is your favorite?
    Richard


    King 1130 Flugabone
    King 2280 Euphonium
    King 10J Tuba
    Conn 22B Trumpet

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Valley City, North Dakota, USA
    Posts
    379
    The Yamaha 642 is probably the most obvious choice since my current horn is a 642 copy/stencil horn. And prior to that, I played a YEP-321. Im sure it would be absolutely great, give me the longevity and reliability I am after, etc.

    I know you [Dave] are being honest, but I do have to factor in your relationship with Adams, of course. You have a bias (even if it is completely warranted).

    I also have been chatting up Matonizz, and he of course also recommends the E3 (another Adams artist). However, he did give the Wessex Sinfonico surprisingly high marks for a mid-tier option (granted, the reviews here have been pretty positive as well).

    There is also an underlying desire to, perhaps, have something unique in my musical circle. Given Im in ND, thats not too difficult though. Ha!

    Bottom line. I have the budget to buy what Id like. Id prefer to buy something that is going to see me through the remainder of my playing days (Im 52, so have some significant time left, Lord-willing).

    As far as my playing sound. I suppose it is fairly bright. I can make most horns sound good enough I guess. When I am in a room full of band folks before a session, Ill usually get a few head turns when I start warming upnot sure if that is my tone, projection, brightness

    Im a former good player who has rekindled the old passion for music and am having a grand old time.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (previously)
    Posts
    1,656
    If the budget is not an issue, I would get an Adams E3. I suppose I have a bias because I think it is the best horn out there, and I own one. I have owned multiple Bessons, two Prestiges, the top Yamaha, a Hirsbrunner, two Wessex horns and a Miraphone M5050 (and probably some more I forgot about). The Adams is the best horn I have had of all those, with the Miraphone a solid 2nd place choice.

    I love the way the Adams sounds, and to me, that is the absolute number one consideration before ANYTHING else. It just sounds nice, and it sounds the way I want a euphonium to sound.

    Mine is also gorgeous, which makes me want to pick it up and play it every time I pass by it, which is often. You can customize the horn to your heart's content as I did. I had the sterling silver bell hand engraved by an artist in the former Czechoslovakia.

    I have had it over 6 years, and I love it. I just joined a community band in Ocala, Florida after relocating from Sturgis, SD to Summerfield, Florida. I played the euphonium solo in a Superman medley at our last concert and must have had half the 12-member trumpet section come up to me over the past week or so and compliment me on the solo. They said stuff like I never knew a euphonium could sound like that, best sounding euphonium solo I have heard in a long time, your horn just sings beautifully, etc. I was very humbled to hear those things, but I know in my heart that the reason for the sound had a lot to do with the horn I was playing on. I simply love this horn. Never ever tire of it. The horn itself motivates me to play and keep playing. I can sit down with my horn and just think of songs and play them on the Adams all day long and NEVER get bored or tired of it.

    Check out the Adams. I bought mine without ever seeing one in person, let alone playing on one. I was not disappointed, and I don't think you would be either.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)

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