Solve playing sharp on Besson Prestige 2052

[rgorscak]

I have brought this up before on the forum. I have a Prestige 2052 Euphonium and I seem not to be able to keep myself from playing very sharp on D to F above the staff and F and possible G on the staff. I know the Prestige is sharp on these notes and to play these in tune, I have to extend the tuning trigger out all the way. Sometimes I find that I can play those same notes in tune only to have to go out of tune as I play longer. When I look at the intonation chart that Dave Weldon referred me to, I see that the Adam E3 tends to be more in tune and maybe flat on certain notes (if I am reading it right). Since I tend to play sharp, I wondered if I would do better with an Adam E3 or am I just fooling myself and looking for gimmicks to solve my intonation problem. There are no stores in Orlando that would have an Adam E3 in stock so I cannot even try one out.

I was looking for opinions on what approach I might take to cure my intonation problem. Is it worth looking at an Adam E3 or is thinking a different horn might help me just looking for excuses? The last couple of days, I am trying to use the trigger only on the sharp notes but trying to do time it right for fast packages is difficult for me at best. Maybe I bought the wrong horn for someone trying to come back from a long hiatus. I could just use the Conn Constellation 24i I have because I seem to play that horn pretty much in tune.

I have to admit I am getting quite frustrated! I had asked my band director if I was sharp and he said he did not notice a big issue (I brought it up because I thought I was), but during the last concert, while we were running through some tunes, he said that the Euphoniums were sharp on D above the staff and I am sure that was me.

Any advice of either trying a different horn or just work on my technique using the trigger (and possible alternate fingering)? I am not about to QUIT. My technique is getting much better, but not my intonation!!!

[davewerden]

The Adams is the best I have found for intonation. As for whether it's worth buying one, that's up to you. I don't have a trigger on mine, which I like.

Having said that, many people do fine with the Besson and its trigger. It is usually not necessary to worry about it during fast passages.

As to Adams testing, according to this page:

https://www.adams-music.com/en/deale...or/adams_brass

Husonics in St. Petersburg is closest to you, but they don't seem to have an Adams euphonium. They do carry Adams trumpets and flugels, so they might be able to get an E3 for you to try.

[rgorscak]

Thanks Dave. I would buy one and sell my Prestige if I thought it will work. I did email Husonics this morning and I am waiting for a reply.

Maybe I will take the plunge!!! I will think it over tonight and decide tomorrow. I have to see how I would buy a new one. Some web sites claim to have them. Any recommendation on how best to buy one would be greatly appreciated.

I actually have too many horns and I think I should start to sell some, but that is a different issue!

[davewerden]

Thanks Dave. I would buy one and sell my Prestige if I thought it will work. I did email Husonics this morning and I am waiting for a reply.

Maybe I will take the plunge!!! I will think it over tonight and decide tomorrow. I have to see how I would buy a new one. Some web sites claim to have them. Any recommendation on how best to buy one would be greatly appreciated.

I actually have too many horns and I think I should start to sell some, but that is a different issue!

The two Adams dealers I know best are Austin Custom Brass in Kansas City, and The Brass Stop LLC in Tulsa. Either of them could have an E3 if your timing is good. Shipping is not cheap and there may be a restocking fee.

Miel Adams suggested I tell people to find a super-cheap flight to Amsterdam. Then it's an easy train ride to Adams to try horns! No one that I know of has taken that suggestion, but it does give the luxury of trying multiple horns. IF you do that you'd want to make sure they will have some ready for you when you get there.

[rgorscak]

Dave

I took the plunge. Hopefully there are not stones in the water. I had seen Autin Custom Brass before. If things work out well, I will be putting my Prestige 2052 up for sale along with a bunch or other instruments and many, many other things I accumulated through the years!!!

[davewerden]

Congratulations on your decision! Keep us posted as you progress.

I know what you mean about accumulating horns - I have a few that are doing nothing except gathering dust. Now I just have to figure out the best way to sell them.

[John Morgan]

...I know what you mean about accumulating horns - I have a few that are doing nothing except gathering dust. Now I just have to figure out the best way to sell them.

I can help with that, simply sell them all to me for very few dollars. You get rid of your extra horns, you have much more space in your home (in fact, this might allow you to even downsize to a smaller home) and as a bonus, you only have to carry the very least amount of money in your wallet from what I pay you, so it wouldn't pay to rob you (important now a days). How can you go wrong?

[davewerden]

I can help with that, simply sell them all to me for very few dollars. You get rid of your extra horns, you have much more space in your home (in fact, this might allow you to even downsize to a smaller home) and as a bonus, you only have to carry the very least amount of money in your wallet from what I pay you, so it wouldn't pay to rob you (important now a days). How can you go wrong?

Hmm. Maybe if you got one of those online Minister things I could donate them to you and claim a tax deduction...

[John Morgan]

Hmm. Maybe if you got one of those online Minister things I could donate them to you and claim a tax deduction...

That was my very next idea...

[rgorscak]

and i was hoping i could be the comic on this forum

[rgorscak]

One more question, I was told that the player and the mouthpiece also affect intonation. I know I play sharp but is there information on how a mouthpiece design can affect intonation? I have so many mouthpieces that I have bought over the years. When I get my new Adams E3, I will also experiment with all my mouthpieces to see what works best for me. I probably have about 20, but I bet not as many as others in the Forum have!

[davewerden]

One more question, I was told that the player and the mouthpiece also affect intonation. I know I play sharp but is there information on how a mouthpiece design can affect intonation? I have so many mouthpieces that I have bought over the years. When I get my new Adams E3, I will also experiment with all my mouthpieces to see what works best for me. I probably have about 20, but I bet not as many as others in the Forum have!

Yes, mouthpieces can affect intonation. Generally, narrower/shallower will make sharp notes worse; wider/deeper will make sharp notes better. And the inverse is true.

Before Besson added triggers, many players found it helpful to use a deeper mouthpiece to control the sharp 6th partial.

[rgorscak]

Thank You Dave. We will see how the Adam E3 and I get along. By the way, my other question about the baritone is just me trying to learn things (no real need for an answer now). I am not in the market for a baritone now (no need for one), especially after buying the Adam E3. I need to sell about 5 horns before I would add anything else.

[rgorscak]

I received my new Adams E3 a few days ago and finally was able to get it out yesterday. Someone suggested I give a progress report on how it solves my intonation problem compared to the Besson Prestige 2052 I have.

1) The horn definitely felt lighter (weight)
2) The sound to me was "brighter" and it seemed to respond quicker than by Besson. There is definitely a different sound, and I can see that both have their place. It would depend on my mood, I guess. The Besson seems mellow (or darker?)
3) It took a while to center in on higher notes because it just felt different. I guess I would lip down the Besson to try to play in tune and my mind wanted to do the same on the Adams (hence miss notes). But I got used to it after a little while.
4) Dave's intonation chart was right on for me. The high notes were in tune and the notes that show flat on the intonation chart were flat for me by the same amount.,

This horn does not have a trigger on the tuning slide, so for the notes that are sharp, I will have to learn to lip down.

I am just an amateur, but so far, I think I will like the Adams better than my Prestige. Like Dave and others, I will have to decide if I want to get rid of all my extra horns. I am up to 13 now, from trumpets to a tuba. Don't want to irritate the wife too much!!!!

[John Morgan]

"You got an Adams E3 a few days ago and finally got it out yesterday?" My goodness, that is indeed the most miraculous, intense and severe case of restraint I have ever seen. I wouldn't be able to wait until I went to the bathroom, even if I really, really had to go, to get a new Adams E3 out. I know, maybe a little too much information or mental pictures there, but NOTHING would keep me from snatching my new Adams out of the box within the first 60 seconds of its arrival.

Glad you like it and hope it turns out to be everything you wanted in a euphonium.