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Thread: Solve playing sharp on Besson Prestige 2052

  1. #11
    One more question, I was told that the player and the mouthpiece also affect intonation. I know I play sharp but is there information on how a mouthpiece design can affect intonation? I have so many mouthpieces that I have bought over the years. When I get my new Adams E3, I will also experiment with all my mouthpieces to see what works best for me. I probably have about 20, but I bet not as many as others in the Forum have!

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by rgorscak View Post
    One more question, I was told that the player and the mouthpiece also affect intonation. I know I play sharp but is there information on how a mouthpiece design can affect intonation? I have so many mouthpieces that I have bought over the years. When I get my new Adams E3, I will also experiment with all my mouthpieces to see what works best for me. I probably have about 20, but I bet not as many as others in the Forum have!
    Yes, mouthpieces can affect intonation. Generally, narrower/shallower will make sharp notes worse; wider/deeper will make sharp notes better. And the inverse is true.

    Before Besson added triggers, many players found it helpful to use a deeper mouthpiece to control the sharp 6th partial.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #13
    Thank You Dave. We will see how the Adam E3 and I get along. By the way, my other question about the baritone is just me trying to learn things (no real need for an answer now). I am not in the market for a baritone now (no need for one), especially after buying the Adam E3. I need to sell about 5 horns before I would add anything else.

  4. #14
    I received my new Adams E3 a few days ago and finally was able to get it out yesterday. Someone suggested I give a progress report on how it solves my intonation problem compared to the Besson Prestige 2052 I have.

    1) The horn definitely felt lighter (weight)
    2) The sound to me was "brighter" and it seemed to respond quicker than by Besson. There is definitely a different sound, and I can see that both have their place. It would depend on my mood, I guess. The Besson seems mellow (or darker?)
    3) It took a while to center in on higher notes because it just felt different. I guess I would lip down the Besson to try to play in tune and my mind wanted to do the same on the Adams (hence miss notes). But I got used to it after a little while.
    4) Dave's intonation chart was right on for me. The high notes were in tune and the notes that show flat on the intonation chart were flat for me by the same amount.,

    This horn does not have a trigger on the tuning slide, so for the notes that are sharp, I will have to learn to lip down.

    I am just an amateur, but so far, I think I will like the Adams better than my Prestige. Like Dave and others, I will have to decide if I want to get rid of all my extra horns. I am up to 13 now, from trumpets to a tuba. Don't want to irritate the wife too much!!!!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida
    Posts
    1,618
    "You got an Adams E3 a few days ago and finally got it out yesterday?" My goodness, that is indeed the most miraculous, intense and severe case of restraint I have ever seen. I wouldn't be able to wait until I went to the bathroom, even if I really, really had to go, to get a new Adams E3 out. I know, maybe a little too much information or mental pictures there, but NOTHING would keep me from snatching my new Adams out of the box within the first 60 seconds of its arrival.

    Glad you like it and hope it turns out to be everything you wanted in a euphonium.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Kingdom of the Sun Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)

  6. #16
    Until one with AI comes along, I can tell I will be happy!

  7. #17
    I tried to see what a used Besson Prestige 2052 would sell for if I decide to sell mine. Has anyone ever seen one for sale?

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by rgorscak View Post
    I received my new Adams E3 a few days ago and finally was able to get it out yesterday. Someone suggested I give a progress report on how it solves my intonation problem compared to the Besson Prestige 2052 I have.

    1) The horn definitely felt lighter (weight)
    2) The sound to me was "brighter" and it seemed to respond quicker than by Besson. There is definitely a different sound, and I can see that both have their place. It would depend on my mood, I guess. The Besson seems mellow (or darker?)
    3) It took a while to center in on higher notes because it just felt different. I guess I would lip down the Besson to try to play in tune and my mind wanted to do the same on the Adams (hence miss notes). But I got used to it after a little while.
    4) Dave's intonation chart was right on for me. The high notes were in tune and the notes that show flat on the intonation chart were flat for me by the same amount.,

    This horn does not have a trigger on the tuning slide, so for the notes that are sharp, I will have to learn to lip down.

    I am just an amateur, but so far, I think I will like the Adams better than my Prestige. Like Dave and others, I will have to decide if I want to get rid of all my extra horns. I am up to 13 now, from trumpets to a tuba. Don't want to irritate the wife too much!!!!
    Having played for my whole career on Besson / Boosey until May this year. I have some observations about changing to an Adams. Firstly middle A (treble clef) is very sharp on 1/2. The E above that seems flat, but 1/2 cures it. That aside there’s is little to comment on, unlike the Bessons which had flat top C, appallingly flat top B natural, sharp top G, F, flat middle B, sharp middle A etc etc. I compensated over the years and never used a trigger, and am still unlearning the habit. I sit next to a very decent second euph on her brand new Prestige and her intonation by comparison is wayward to say the least. Or the Adams is no longer concealing the fact. It will gel, but is going to take time. We swapped hooters recently and the number of notes I was deploying full trigger on when using her 2052 was frankly alarming. Fundamentals seemed broadly in tune but valved notes were incredibly vague.
    Adams E2 0.80 Yellow Brass, Satin Lacquer, Blue Abalone Buttons
    AR Resonance M Top / L Backbore Gold Plated Phosphor Bronze

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Varese,Italy
    Posts
    256
    Well, what I can say based on my experience of more than half a century as an amateur brass player is that there is no such thing as the perfect intonation instrument. Even the equal temperament, on which modern musical compositions are based, is the result of compromises to make the performance in all keys acceptable. I play on a 2007 Besson Prestige 2052 and I have no problem playing in tune: I use the trigger on some notes (partial sixth, F in the staff and F below the staff). Each instrument has its strengths and weaknesses, in choosing the intonation is only one of the factors to be taken into consideration; personally in the first place I put the tone and the answer: if the sound does not satisfy me, everything else does not count. I had the opportunity to try some Adams, Yamaha, Willson and Miraphone, all excellent instruments, but there was none that turned me on the light to make me take the big step of changing my Prestige or, at least that justified an expense. of € 7-10,000 for a new euphonium. Surely each of them had a few more points in their favor than the Prestige, but overall, to my ears, the Besson had the best tone and absolutely fantastic mechanics (valves and triggers) and is built like a tank, considerably more. heavy than any other euphonium. Perhaps what, in my guesswork, could be a winner is the Adams E2, which one day I would like to try: if on that occasion the light comes on I could, then, consider, wife permitting, the big step.
    Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone,4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves 1974, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

  10. #20
    I do agree that my Besson has a better sound (and is a lot heavier). Since I only started playing again a few years ago, I have to go with the one that gives me the least issues which is the Adam. I could play my Conn Constellation 24i which presents me with no intonation problems
    Last edited by rgorscak; 07-27-2022 at 02:12 PM.

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