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Thread: Hbc - wtf?

  1. #1

    Question Hbc - wtf?

    Just like Frozen Caveman Laywer (RIP Phil Hartman), I've been frozen in the ice and away from the music world from 1995-2022. In this time so much has changed.

    What in the world is a Heavy Bottom Cap and WTF is it supposed to do? I checked out the site and I'm still confused. Yes, I am blonde, but that's besides the point. LOL.
    Des


    Meet the Family
    Junior - Euphonium - 1906 - Henry Distin Mfg.
    Hastings - Trombone - 1952 - Boosey and Hawkes
    Bramwell - Euphonium - 1988 - Besson/Boosey and Hawkes (BE967)
    Donna - Baritone - 2012 - Dillon Music
    Margaret - Baritone - 2015 - Sterling1050HGS


    New York Staff Band :1991-1994
    Philadelphia Freedom Band - 2022-
    Lancaster British Brass Band (all hail the 2nd baritone) - 2022-

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    879
    Supposedly it dampens the miniscule vibrations present in some compensating euphs 4th valve.

    This in turn 'supposedly' redirects that energy back into the airstream, rather using it to vibrate the 4th casing.

    Wait till you discover the LeFreak Plates, little bits of noble metals to strap on your horn's curves to 'amplify' the tone and tuning...

    Nah. But what would you expect from a guy with a landline phone and incandescent bulbs...

    DG
    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original
    2019 Wessex Tornister

  3. #3
    ����*♀️ Too much for my head this hour of the morning.


    Quote Originally Posted by highpitch View Post
    Supposedly it dampens the miniscule vibrations present in some compensating euphs 4th valve.

    This in turn 'supposedly' redirects that energy back into the airstream, rather using it to vibrate the 4th casing.

    Wait till you discover the LeFreak Plates, little bits of noble metals to strap on your horn's curves to 'amplify' the tone and tuning...

    Nah. But what would you expect from a guy with a landline phone and incandescent bulbs...

    DG
    Des


    Meet the Family
    Junior - Euphonium - 1906 - Henry Distin Mfg.
    Hastings - Trombone - 1952 - Boosey and Hawkes
    Bramwell - Euphonium - 1988 - Besson/Boosey and Hawkes (BE967)
    Donna - Baritone - 2012 - Dillon Music
    Margaret - Baritone - 2015 - Sterling1050HGS


    New York Staff Band :1991-1994
    Philadelphia Freedom Band - 2022-
    Lancaster British Brass Band (all hail the 2nd baritone) - 2022-

  4. https://heavybottomcaps.co.uk/

    Claim is that it helps centre and secure notes.
    Some people think it works, some say it's snake oil.
    I use one on the third valve of my 3-valve tenor horn. Maybe I'm an idiot but I think it makes a difference higher up in range.

    Claim is that you only need it on the fourth valve, or the third valve of a three valve instrument.
    That said, I know some people in the trumpet crowd who use full sets of heavy caps.

  5. #5
    I recently played a recital that involved some high volumes in places. A couple weeks before the recital it seemed like I was pushing the max for the horn (combined with my current ability). So I switched from a medium-weight Adams 4th valve cap to the heaviest ABC. After that, I seemed like I could successfully push it even more. It felt more solid and the sound I heard coming back from the room was fuller. It also felt more stable as I was moving around over intervals.

    That was similar to my feeling when I first tried a heavy cap on my Sterling.

    I have a personal theory about why it helps on a 4-valve compensating euphonium. If you look at 1-2-3, that group is very well connected by braces and tubing. But the poor 4th valve is more or less hanging out in the open with much less stability (visually). Adding mass to that seems very logical when you look at it, and I think that does translate into an actual playing difference. That said, it is subtle.

    Here is my A/B comparison in a large room with good acoustics:

    https://youtu.be/I9vZjM6UVBw
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,561
    Here’s a link to an experiment I did with my Yamaha 641 back in 2008 — which includes pictures. Like Dave mentioned a heavy 4th valve cap adds some mass to that area of the horn. The 641 was recently sold and it still had that same ‘homemade’ heavy 4th valve cap installed.

    Heavy Valve Caps for Euphonium:
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Greensleeves (arr. Alfred Reed)


  7. #7
    I have had a heavy valve cap on the fourth valve of my Boosey round stamp, and it made pitching in the awkward upper register slightly easier, but benefitted nothing else.

    I have heavy caps all round on my new Adams E2, with the top 3 marginally heavier than the fourth. The instrument is superior in every regard, so I guess the extra weight has some benefit.
    Adams E2 0.80 Yellow Brass, Satin Lacquer, Blue Abalone Buttons
    AR Resonance M Top / L Backbore Gold Plated Phosphor Bronze

  8. #8
    This is fascinating stuff.
    Des


    Meet the Family
    Junior - Euphonium - 1906 - Henry Distin Mfg.
    Hastings - Trombone - 1952 - Boosey and Hawkes
    Bramwell - Euphonium - 1988 - Besson/Boosey and Hawkes (BE967)
    Donna - Baritone - 2012 - Dillon Music
    Margaret - Baritone - 2015 - Sterling1050HGS


    New York Staff Band :1991-1994
    Philadelphia Freedom Band - 2022-
    Lancaster British Brass Band (all hail the 2nd baritone) - 2022-

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