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Thread: Geneva GVL Cardinal review

  1. #11
    Hello Jharris,

    It has been fascinating reading your review of your new Geneva GVL Cardinal Euphonium. I have just heard a video of The Black Dyke Band playing at The Whit Friday Marches which took place last week and I was really impressed with their sound!

    I cannot wait to see how you get on with your new Geneva GVL Cardinal Euphonium over the coming weeks and months ahead.

    Best Wishes,

    Micah Dominic Parsons
    Best Wishes,

    Micah Dominic Parsons

    Website - https://mdpmicahdominicpar.wixsite.com/my-site
    Blog - https://theblogofabrassmusician1994.blogspot.com/

    Facebook Account - https://www.facebook.com/Micah-Domin...05492345484536
    Twitter Account - @MicahDParsons94
    Instagram Account - @MDP.Micah.Dominic.Parsons
    Youtube Account - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRj...KljG3JLcuMs60A

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jharris View Post
    The new Black Dyke sound?
    Like looking at a screen after the protective film has been peeled of, sure you could see everything displayed on it with the cover on just fine, but it’s just that tiny bit crisper.
    Or like a model that’s lost a few pounds before a photoshoot to capture more definition.

    Subtle but you only have to listen to pre 2020 recordings and then the more recent ones and you will hear a difference. Obviously it’s personal if it’s a direction you like or not though.
    This is really interesting.

    I have in my possession at my house:
    1) A 2020 Gold Lacquer Prestige with floating lead pipe
    2) A 2020 Geneva Oldroyd Cardinal with rose brass bell (Silver plated)
    3) A 1980 Globe Stamp Sovereign

    I should really do an aggressive playtest against all 3.
    Mike Taylor

    Illinois Brass Band

  3. #13
    Hello MikeTeachesClass,

    It would be really interesting to hear your thoughts in regards to all three instruments.

    I was wondering if you could create a side by side comparison of both The Besson Prestige 2052-2 Euphonium and The Geneva Oldroyd Cardinal Euphonium? It would be interesting to compare both instruments in an indepth analysis of the similarities and differences of both instruments.

    Best Wishes,

    Micah Dominic Parsons
    Best Wishes,

    Micah Dominic Parsons

    Website - https://mdpmicahdominicpar.wixsite.com/my-site
    Blog - https://theblogofabrassmusician1994.blogspot.com/

    Facebook Account - https://www.facebook.com/Micah-Domin...05492345484536
    Twitter Account - @MicahDParsons94
    Instagram Account - @MDP.Micah.Dominic.Parsons
    Youtube Account - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRj...KljG3JLcuMs60A

  4. #14
    Or if the reasons why I stopped playing all those years ago (the other was bullying) was noticing there was a problem with my embouchure. 25years and two procedures between my upper lip and nose, trying to replay again has been difficult.

    I’m still trying to figure out what my problem was. I lost my upper range. Felt like I was pressure blowing instead of pushing air through the horn. I’d fatigue almost instantly.

    I played on a Henry Distin mouthpiece (made in 1906) up until March. I switched to a DW 4.5AL heritage with the flat rim and its been good so far. Still looking for someone who can help me overcome my problems. Finding someone to study with, especially one who can help has been difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jharris View Post
    Yea, current price for Geneva is £8750 and the Prestige is £6500. Though prices vary wildly on the prestige depending on retailer… perhaps they have older stock?

    Micah, if you get chance go see Black Dyke live, their sound has changed with the move to Geneva but they also have gained dynamic range and clarity in the lower pitched sections, when you hear a similar quality band like Brighouse the runs just lack the same clarity.

    The fact my wife could hear the difference in clarity between the Sterling and the Geneva with my SHxTE playing says a lot in my books…

    My wife is on a Geneva Sop and has found the same with her playing IMO she sounds better than when we were at Uni, and I am jealous she has not had the issues with embouchure on her return to playing after 8 or so years of neglect…

  5. Anadmai, interesting that a flatter mouthpiece is helping.

    If you have had operations on your embouchure area it might be worth paying for a consultation with someone who has been through the same things and recovered to professional level.

    My issues have been limited to mid range D -A, new mouthpiece is helping loads but has not yet eliminated the issue. My top range is in the best shape getting concert super Fs and all the pedal range, my other mouthpieces also fatigued my lips and made them swell for days after playing, new piece is a few hours of swelling after a hours practice which seems a more normal response.

    Long tones and scales, treating myself as if I was a complete beginner and over analysis of posture, tongue positioning and breathing, I am gonna assume you have tried all this as well, in my head I think I want to progress to an even smaller mouthpiece over the next month or so my thoughts being that if I can play cornet then smaller is better? But that is where I am up to at the moment…. If you have any tricks you found worked for you I would be very grateful to hear them!

    I would love to hear a comparison of new prestige and geneva in terms of clarity… as the playing issues weren’t promising it wasn’t something I stuck around to consider correctly. Certainly the circa 2006/7 English made Prestige’s played like they had a nose full of a cold unless you played everything FF….

  6. #16
    When I first got my sovereign back in 88, it came with a 4AL I believe. I couldn't for the life of me get a clear sound. I ordered an adaptor for my Distin and never went back. I've been basically using the mouthpiece since I was 14 (I'm now *sob* 50).

    I'm trying all the things. I've noticed the pressure, the lack of tonguing and lack of air support. Posture too is huge. I spoke to my surgeon prior to playing again in February and said with my procedure, some have noticed differences in the way their upper lip vibrates. I'm still looking for that person to talk to who can put the pieces together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jharris View Post
    Anadmai, interesting that a flatter mouthpiece is helping.

    If you have had operations on your embouchure area it might be worth paying for a consultation with someone who has been through the same things and recovered to professional level.

    My issues have been limited to mid range D -A, new mouthpiece is helping loads but has not yet eliminated the issue. My top range is in the best shape getting concert super Fs and all the pedal range, my other mouthpieces also fatigued my lips and made them swell for days after playing, new piece is a few hours of swelling after a hours practice which seems a more normal response.

    Long tones and scales, treating myself as if I was a complete beginner and over analysis of posture, tongue positioning and breathing, I am gonna assume you have tried all this as well, in my head I think I want to progress to an even smaller mouthpiece over the next month or so my thoughts being that if I can play cornet then smaller is better? But that is where I am up to at the moment…. If you have any tricks you found worked for you I would be very grateful to hear them!

    I would love to hear a comparison of new prestige and geneva in terms of clarity… as the playing issues weren’t promising it wasn’t something I stuck around to consider correctly. Certainly the circa 2006/7 English made Prestige’s played like they had a nose full of a cold unless you played everything FF….
    Des


    Meet the Family
    Junior - Euphonium - 1906 - Henry Distin Mfg.
    Hastings - Trombone - 1952 - Boosey and Hawkes
    Bramwell - Euphonium - 1988 - Besson/Boosey and Hawkes (BE967)
    Donna - Baritone - 2012 - Dillon Music
    Margaret - Baritone - 2015 - Sterling1050HGS


    New York Staff Band :1991-1994
    Philadelphia Freedom Band - 2022-
    Lancaster British Brass Band (all hail the 2nd baritone) - 2022-

  7. Is it something that Botox could help with?

    The combination of Geneva and flatter mouthpiece has now gotten me away from double note production, that’s the combination of a better seal with easier blowing on the instrument itself, smaller distances between partials allows the reduction in flexibility from the flat mouthpiece to be mostly over come…

    Most modern Euphs are easier blowing than the old sovereigns, have you tried any others to see if you get any improvements?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NYC metro area
    Posts
    457
    Quote Originally Posted by anadmai View Post
    [snip]I'm trying all the things. I've noticed the pressure, the lack of tonguing and lack of air support. Posture too is huge. I spoke to my surgeon prior to playing again in February and said with my procedure, some have noticed differences in the way their upper lip vibrates. I'm still looking for that person to talk to who can put the pieces together.
    Have you considered a consultation with Doug Elliott? He's known not only for his mouthpieces but also as an embouchure expert.

    By the way, 50 is not bad. For me, it was a time to start reaping the rewards of years of long hours at the office. On Friday, I turn 70.
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1 (DE 101XTG9 mouthpiece in the drawer)
    Bach 36B trombone; Bach 6.5AL mouthpiece (pBone on loan to granddaughter)
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

  9. #19
    I do not know the gentleman. The name sounds familiar. I'll look him up and see what I can learn.

    Didn't mean to hijack the thread, we'll continue this conversation elsewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post
    Have you considered a consultation with Doug Elliott? He's known not only for his mouthpieces but also as an embouchure expert.

    By the way, 50 is not bad. For me, it was a time to start reaping the rewards of years of long hours at the office. On Friday, I turn 70.
    Des


    Meet the Family
    Junior - Euphonium - 1906 - Henry Distin Mfg.
    Hastings - Trombone - 1952 - Boosey and Hawkes
    Bramwell - Euphonium - 1988 - Besson/Boosey and Hawkes (BE967)
    Donna - Baritone - 2012 - Dillon Music
    Margaret - Baritone - 2015 - Sterling1050HGS


    New York Staff Band :1991-1994
    Philadelphia Freedom Band - 2022-
    Lancaster British Brass Band (all hail the 2nd baritone) - 2022-

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