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  • BrandonJones
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2008
    • 316

    #16
    I'll second that Doug Elliott is a master. He can work with you to find a size combination and feel that works best for your playing. Very nice guy, super accommodating, and has as much experience as anyone else. Highly recommend giving him a call.
    Brandon Jones
    Principal Euphonium - The United States Air Force Band, Washington, D.C.
    bmjones82@gmail.com

    Comment

    • bayoung36
      Member
      • Feb 2022
      • 55

      #17
      Doug Elliot was very prompt in responding to my inquiry on his mouthpieces! I’ve been playing on the SM4U for a few years as well, but the BB1 has a better sound. The only thing was comfort between the 2 mouthpieces as the BB1 rim cut into my face and left deep incisions on my face. So while I love the sound it offered, I’m thinking of moving away from the sound! The SM4U is extremely comfortable, but doesn’t have quite the sound I want with my new Adams. Doug has given me a recommendation, and I’ll most likely ask my professor Mr. Dobbins to hear his opinions as well.
      Adams E1 Gold Brass Bell and SS Leadpipe
      Undergrad at Angelo State
      Future TA at University of Oklahoma

      Comment

      • Big Ian
        Junior Member
        • Mar 2019
        • 11

        #18
        I have an Adams E3 Custom (0.7mm) and a Besson Prestige 5052. I use a Randefalk 3 in the Adams and a DC3 in the Besson. The taper in the bore of the lead pipes differs - if I swap the mouthpieces over, they both rattle. I can’t remember which way round, but in one set up the rattle is the end of the mouthpiece against the lead pipe; in the other setup, the lead pipe end rattles against the mouthpiece shank. This took some figuring out as the gap in each case is very small, and probably overcome by pushing in the mouthpiece with a bit more force. Has anyone else come across anything like this? I was surprised, I thought they would all be manufactured to a standard.

        Comment

        • davewerden
          Administrator
          • Nov 2005
          • 11137

          #19
          Originally posted by Big Ian View Post
          I have an Adams E3 Custom (0.7mm) and a Besson Prestige 5052. I use a Randefalk 3 in the Adams and a DC3 in the Besson. The taper in the bore of the lead pipes differs - if I swap the mouthpieces over, they both rattle. I can’t remember which way round, but in one set up the rattle is the end of the mouthpiece against the lead pipe; in the other setup, the lead pipe end rattles against the mouthpiece shank. This took some figuring out as the gap in each case is very small, and probably overcome by pushing in the mouthpiece with a bit more force. Has anyone else come across anything like this? I was surprised, I thought they would all be manufactured to a standard.
          This has been discussed on the forum now and then, so your experience is not unique. I used to run across it on my British-made Besson and my Sterling, but on the Adams I have not had the problem. I'm using a DC4 mouthpiece now, and at the conference I just attended I played on 3 other Adams, 1 Besson (967), and one Wessex (Dolce). The DC4 fit solidly in all 5.

          I assume your Adams has the adjustable gap receiver. If so, you could probably get a new bit for it, but there is no way to know if that is part of the problem. Mouthpieces can be the cause. These days, with computer controlled machining, one would think we would have left such problems behind. But I suppose there is always a mechanical component, and where mechanics are involved there can be wear or (I suppose) some human error in setting/fitting/adjusting/whatever.
          Dave Werden (ASCAP)
          Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
          Adams Artist (Adams E3)
          Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
          YouTube: dwerden
          Facebook: davewerden
          Twitter: davewerden
          Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

          Comment

          • bayoung36
            Member
            • Feb 2022
            • 55

            #20
            Originally posted by davewerden View Post
            This has been discussed on the forum now and then, so your experience is not unique. I used to run across it on my British-made Besson and my Sterling, but on the Adams I have not had the problem. I'm using a DC4 mouthpiece now, and at the conference I just attended I played on 3 other Adams, 1 Besson (967), and one Wessex (Dolce). The DC4 fit solidly in all 5.

            These days, with computer controlled machining, one would think we would have left such problems behind. But I suppose there is always a mechanical component, and where mechanics are involved there can be wear or (I suppose) some human error in setting/fitting/adjusting/whatever.
            You would think things would be standard! I had a friend who ordered a European shank mouthpiece from Denis Wick for her Besson, and it didn’t fit the receiver at all. She thought she ordered the wrong size, but it was a manufacturer issue.
            Adams E1 Gold Brass Bell and SS Leadpipe
            Undergrad at Angelo State
            Future TA at University of Oklahoma

            Comment

            • miketeachesclass
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2016
              • 461

              #21
              Originally posted by Big Ian View Post
              I have an Adams E3 Custom (0.7mm) and a Besson Prestige 5052. I use a Randefalk 3 in the Adams and a DC3 in the Besson. The taper in the bore of the lead pipes differs - if I swap the mouthpieces over, they both rattle. I can’t remember which way round, but in one set up the rattle is the end of the mouthpiece against the lead pipe; in the other setup, the lead pipe end rattles against the mouthpiece shank. This took some figuring out as the gap in each case is very small, and probably overcome by pushing in the mouthpiece with a bit more force. Has anyone else come across anything like this? I was surprised, I thought they would all be manufactured to a standard.
              I also have some randefalk pieces. The end of the leadpipe rattles against the shank of the piece when seated fully on my besson. The gap is not the problem, as the inserted length of the randefalk is less than the inserted depth of a wick.

              It feels like there’s a weird manufacturing thing with the randefalk, but Patrik says it’s not. I had Karl hammond turn the shank of one ever so slightly, and it now fits.

              I assume this is also why the randefalk response feels weird to me on my besson.
              Mike Taylor

              Illinois Brass Band
              Fox Valley Brass Band

              Comment

              • Big Ian
                Junior Member
                • Mar 2019
                • 11

                #22
                Originally posted by miketeachesclass View Post
                I also have some randefalk pieces. The end of the leadpipe rattles against the shank of the piece when seated fully on my besson. The gap is not the problem, as the inserted length of the randefalk is less than the inserted depth of a wick.

                It feels like there’s a weird manufacturing thing with the randefalk, but Patrik says it’s not. I had Karl hammond turn the shank of one ever so slightly, and it now fits.

                I assume this is also why the randefalk response feels weird to me on my besson.
                I chose the Randefalk because Gary Curtin uses one on his Adams E1 (Gary helped me choose the E3; I’m most grateful to him for that!). I wonder if the mouthpiece / receiver mismatch is more of a problem than the manufacturers perhaps appreciate? Trying out a variety of ‘identical’ instruments, maybe the one the musician chooses is the one which best fits the shank of the player’s mouthpiece. I wonder how much the slight mismatch in taper actually affects tone, and weather a screw-on mouthpiece could be the way forward (do Monette do something like that?).

                Comment

                • miketeachesclass
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2016
                  • 461

                  #23
                  Maybe. I’ve got somewhere around 160 mouthpieces. The randefalk is the only one that doesn’t fit in all of my horns appropriately.



                  Originally posted by Big Ian View Post
                  I chose the Randefalk because Gary Curtin uses one on his Adams E1 (Gary helped me choose the E3; I’m most grateful to him for that!). I wonder if the mouthpiece / receiver mismatch is more of a problem than the manufacturers perhaps appreciate? Trying out a variety of ‘identical’ instruments, maybe the one the musician chooses is the one which best fits the shank of the player’s mouthpiece. I wonder how much the slight mismatch in taper actually affects tone, and weather a screw-on mouthpiece could be the way forward (do Monette do something like that?).
                  Mike Taylor

                  Illinois Brass Band
                  Fox Valley Brass Band

                  Comment

                  • Magikarp
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2020
                    • 247

                    #24
                    My AR Resonance gob iron arrived yesterday and got used at the rehearsal. No issues with the build or the fit, only problem was the extra £74.53 import duties our thieving, corrupt, and mendacious government see fit to impose thanks to the lunacy of Brexit. It’s resulted in what is effectively a £400 mouthpiece.

                    And it’s lovely too. Phosphor Bronze and is pretty weighty but extremely responsive. A-B tests with the DC3 show a much greater resonance in the middle lower register - didn’t do much playing above top G but everything seemed nicely centred. The couple of top Bs (TC) seemed easy to slot and bang in tune so looks like it may prove to be a good investment.
                    Nowt

                    Retired

                    Comment

                    • miketeachesclass
                      Senior Member
                      • Feb 2016
                      • 461

                      #25
                      Did you go with the M top, or maybe the new GVL?

                      Which backbore? I’ve found that they make a big difference with the AR pieces.

                      Originally posted by Magikarp View Post
                      My AR Resonance gob iron arrived yesterday and got used at the rehearsal. No issues with the build or the fit, only problem was the extra £74.53 import duties our thieving, corrupt, and mendacious government see fit to impose thanks to the lunacy of Brexit. It’s resulted in what is effectively a £400 mouthpiece.

                      And it’s lovely too. Phosphor Bronze and is pretty weighty but extremely responsive. A-B tests with the DC3 show a much greater resonance in the middle lower register - didn’t do much playing above top G but everything seemed nicely centred. The couple of top Bs (TC) seemed easy to slot and bang in tune so looks like it may prove to be a good investment.
                      Mike Taylor

                      Illinois Brass Band
                      Fox Valley Brass Band

                      Comment

                      • bayoung36
                        Member
                        • Feb 2022
                        • 55

                        #26
                        What is the main difference between the two tops?
                        Adams E1 Gold Brass Bell and SS Leadpipe
                        Undergrad at Angelo State
                        Future TA at University of Oklahoma

                        Comment

                        • miketeachesclass
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2016
                          • 461

                          #27
                          Originally posted by bayoung36 View Post
                          What is the main difference between the two tops?
                          Are you asking about the AR tops?

                          If so, the standard medium is not as deep as the new GVL model. (The old GVL model was just the standard medium top).

                          The new GVL only comes in gold, and with a bronze top and bronze backbore.

                          You can find some basics here, but they don't mention anything about the GVL. Tony is super responsive via email though.
                          https://www.arresonance.com/euphonium
                          Mike Taylor

                          Illinois Brass Band
                          Fox Valley Brass Band

                          Comment

                          • bayoung36
                            Member
                            • Feb 2022
                            • 55

                            #28
                            Have you played on the new GVL model? I’ve been looking at the AR Resonance pieces, but there’s no way I’d be able to test them out!
                            Adams E1 Gold Brass Bell and SS Leadpipe
                            Undergrad at Angelo State
                            Future TA at University of Oklahoma

                            Comment

                            • miketeachesclass
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2016
                              • 461

                              #29
                              Originally posted by bayoung36 View Post
                              Have you played on the new GVL model? I’ve been looking at the AR Resonance pieces, but there’s no way I’d be able to test them out!
                              Yes, I have M, ML, L, and the GVL model, as well as S/M/L backbores.

                              the GVL is deeper than the regular M. I like what it does to the sound, but I find it a bit fatiguing.
                              Mike Taylor

                              Illinois Brass Band
                              Fox Valley Brass Band

                              Comment

                              • bayoung36
                                Member
                                • Feb 2022
                                • 55

                                #30
                                Interesting, how do you think it compares to a SM4U? I’ve been looking for a mouthpiece with a little bit more core to the sound.
                                Adams E1 Gold Brass Bell and SS Leadpipe
                                Undergrad at Angelo State
                                Future TA at University of Oklahoma

                                Comment

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