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Thread: Bass Baritonium ???

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
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    Varese,Italy
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    256
    Quote Originally Posted by hyperbolica View Post
    That bit about the French C tuba is interesting. Do you have a recording of a skilled player showing the range? Also, can you explain how you use the 6 valve arrangement?
    Check out this recent thread on the French tuba

    http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...-Tuba-TC-236-P -

    there are a couple of links where Carl Kleinsteuber gives an extensive demonstration of what the French C tuba sounds like.

    https://youtu.be/313HdaUj0iE

    https://youtu.be/HGIux_7_baA

    Also you can find the positions for the low notes with the three valves for the left hand illustrated by Snake Charmer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sljgjXNUo9Y

    Two more examples by Helmuth

    https://youtu.be/gBPQZC4UOMM

    https://youtu.be/NlyBtzk6TnE
    Last edited by franz; 03-27-2022 at 03:52 AM.
    Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone,4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves 1974, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

  2. Wessex is coming out with a French Bass Saxhorn in late 2022.

    https://us.wessex-tubas.com/collecti...b-saxhorn-br20

  3. This is a baritone saxhorn. With 4 non-compensated valves it will not play effortlessly the asked range. For that you need a real saxhorn basse with five valves, if you don`t want to use the french c tuba. Couesnon is the last make to making those.
    Or you look at the Alexander 151, which you can order with 5 valves.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Snake Charmer View Post
    This is a baritone saxhorn. With 4 non-compensated valves it will not play effortlessly the asked range. For that you need a real saxhorn basse with five valves, if you don`t want to use the french c tuba. Couesnon is the last make to making those.
    Or you look at the Alexander 151, which you can order with 5 valves.
    I believe the Wessex is a bass saxhorn. Itís .600/.640Ē bore, and it looks compensating (see the tuning slides on the posterior view) but I canít tell for sure. I would agree a French C Tuba or the Alexander 151 with 5 valves would likely serve the purpose of the original poster better, but I still believe the Wessex Saxhorn is a bass saxhorn.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by silasgarmon View Post
    ...it looks compensating (see the tuning slides on the posterior view)
    It is a copy of the Courtois 164 and not compensating. On the rear are valve crooks one and two, giving space for the main tuning slide on the front before entering the valves.

    The definition of "bass" saxhorn is not chiselled in stone, but most older french methods say: 3 piston=tenor, 4 piston=bariton, 5 piston=basse. This applies for Bb and C instruments.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Charmer View Post
    The definition of "bass" saxhorn is not chiselled in stone, but most older french methods say: 3 piston=tenor, 4 piston=bariton, 5 piston=basse. This applies for Bb and C instruments.
    Agree to disagree? I own a 3 valve Couesnon Bb Bass. It is very distinct type of instrument with distinct attributes that distinguish it. It is clearly not a Baritone, and certainly not a Tenor. I could ramble for pages about this sort of thing, but I won't. I will say that I think it is a mistake for Wessex to produce the BR20 in small shank.
    Hobbyist. Collector. Oval rotary guy. Unpaid shill for Josef Klier mouthpieces.

  7. I think the definition of tenor, baritone and bass is made for the playable range, not for the playing charcteristics. The saxhorns mostly differ in the number of valves, not in bore and taper like the rotaries. But honestly the french people don't give anything on it, they simply call it "tuba". Same way they call oval rotary horns "saxhorn"...
    The small shank on the Wessex is just true to the french saxhorns, even my 5 valve Courtois 166 has only a medium shank (like the standard french c tuba). And with a long leadpipe and a large shank receiver you would need a bigger bore valve block and soon you will end up in the world of every-year-growing euphoniums.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Snake Charmer View Post
    It is a copy of the Courtois 164 and not compensating. On the rear are valve crooks one and two, giving space for the main tuning slide on the front before entering the valves.

    The definition of "bass" saxhorn is not chiselled in stone, but most older french methods say: 3 piston=tenor, 4 piston=bariton, 5 piston=basse. This applies for Bb and C instruments.
    Iíll concede thatís itís not compensating. I didnít realize that it is a clone of the Courtois, or that Courtois sold more than one saxhorn model. I only knew of the Legend 366 compensating model. Though, I think having the amount of valves determine the instrument type isnít logical. The Courtois 164 is still sold as a bass saxhorn despite only having 4 valves.

  9. As I said, most french people don't care about. And some years ago they stopped the 166, which was a proper saxhorn basse. The 164 is a rock-solid horn with a great low register, but with four non compensated valves you reach chromatically down to C under the staff. B is missing, you can play it only with lipping up from pedal Bb (which works fine). And the range between Eb an pedal Bb is a bit compromised by not perfect fingering. With the 5 valves of the 166 you can play chromatically (and uncompromised)down to Ab one octave below the staff. This sounds more like a proper bass instrument!
    The original question of this thread was finding a horn for filling this gap without using a compensated euphonium (or the "modern" compensated saxhorns, Courtois 366 or Willson Willsax). For that the 4 valve saxhorn is not enough, unless you take a saxhorn contre-basse in Eb (in modern terms an Eb tuba). Or the "british" F tuba from Wessex or any old, slender F or Eb tuba.

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