Bass Baritonium ???

[notaverygoodname]

The definition of "bass" saxhorn is not chiselled in stone, but most older french methods say: 3 piston=tenor, 4 piston=bariton, 5 piston=basse. This applies for Bb and C instruments.

Agree to disagree? I own a 3 valve Couesnon Bb Bass. It is very distinct type of instrument with distinct attributes that distinguish it. It is clearly not a Baritone, and certainly not a Tenor. I could ramble for pages about this sort of thing, but I won't. I will say that I think it is a mistake for Wessex to produce the BR20 in small shank.

[Snake Charmer]

I think the definition of tenor, baritone and bass is made for the playable range, not for the playing charcteristics. The saxhorns mostly differ in the number of valves, not in bore and taper like the rotaries. But honestly the french people don't give anything on it, they simply call it "tuba". Same way they call oval rotary horns "saxhorn"...
The small shank on the Wessex is just true to the french saxhorns, even my 5 valve Courtois 166 has only a medium shank (like the standard french c tuba). And with a long leadpipe and a large shank receiver you would need a bigger bore valve block and soon you will end up in the world of every-year-growing euphoniums.

[silasgarmon]

It is a copy of the Courtois 164 and not compensating. On the rear are valve crooks one and two, giving space for the main tuning slide on the front before entering the valves.

The definition of "bass" saxhorn is not chiselled in stone, but most older french methods say: 3 piston=tenor, 4 piston=bariton, 5 piston=basse. This applies for Bb and C instruments.

I’ll concede that’s it’s not compensating. I didn’t realize that it is a clone of the Courtois, or that Courtois sold more than one saxhorn model. I only knew of the Legend 366 compensating model. Though, I think having the amount of valves determine the instrument type isn’t logical. The Courtois 164 is still sold as a bass saxhorn despite only having 4 valves.

[Snake Charmer]

As I said, most french people don't care about. And some years ago they stopped the 166, which was a proper saxhorn basse. The 164 is a rock-solid horn with a great low register, but with four non compensated valves you reach chromatically down to C under the staff. B is missing, you can play it only with lipping up from pedal Bb (which works fine). And the range between Eb an pedal Bb is a bit compromised by not perfect fingering. With the 5 valves of the 166 you can play chromatically (and uncompromised)down to Ab one octave below the staff. This sounds more like a proper bass instrument!
The original question of this thread was finding a horn for filling this gap without using a compensated euphonium (or the "modern" compensated saxhorns, Courtois 366 or Willson Willsax). For that the 4 valve saxhorn is not enough, unless you take a saxhorn contre-basse in Eb (in modern terms an Eb tuba). Or the "british" F tuba from Wessex or any old, slender F or Eb tuba.

[massmanute]

Maybe my response is too naive, but how about a 4-valve compensating British-style baritone horn? Wessex lists one for $1,586.50 in lacquer finish and Jimlaabs sells their version for $785 in lacquer.

I think that such an instrument should be a little darker than a bass trombone and a little brighter than a euphonium, and being 4-valve with compensation it should have the range needed without gaps in the range.