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Thread: 1st valve weird problem

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    1st valve weird problem

    Not Euphonium, but Alto Horn, however the problem probably could occur on any brass instrument with piston valves...

    I have a BM Symphonic Alto Horn that I really enjoy playing. It has a beatiful tone, I can really make it sing when I try. Intonation is excellent...except for one note. That is the (written) D in the staff. It is awfully flat, so I need to play that particular note with 1-3 instead of 1. Everything else is very good in tune.

    Today I cleaned the horn thoroughly. After putting it back together, I started playing and suddenly noticed the D was in tune when playing with only 1st valve! Of course, I was very happy and dreamt of playing all the difficult licks better without the pesky 1-3 fingering. But alas! As I played on, I noticed the D getting flatter and flatter, until it got to the point I had gotten used to. So now I am back to the D with 1-3.

    This has me wondering though...how can it be that just one note is so awfully flat? And that after cleaning it is perfectly in tune for a while but deteriorates so quickly? And of course, does anyone have any suggestions how to solve this?

    I do believe the valves are leaking air very slightly, but it seems weird that that would cause a problem with just one note. To me it would seem more logical to cause intonation problems over the whole scale or at least all notes with that particular valve, but it's just that one D. And if that's the problem, could replating the valves solve it? But then, would it still play as nice as it does now? Because if replating brings a risk of changing the sound, intonation or overall playability in a negative way, I am more than happy to keep using the 1-3 combination for just that one note.

  2. #2
    It's probably some strange issue with the valve, but there are certainly some weird things that can happen with intonation, particularly when weird Alto things get involved. I would run it down like this.

    If the open E above is flat, then it's just 5th partial being flat. That kinda-sorta ~10% cylindrical bore that Bb Bass Saxhorn and Kinderform Tenorhorn use is really bad about this.

    If the open E isn't flat, try going way up to the next Bb and see how that fares. If it's flat, then it's probably the valve. Water might be getting into a tiny hole or something. If the valves are really worn, and you don't value your health very much, you can shoot some WD40 up the bottom of the valve and let that work itself in. In case I didn't word that properly, I literally mean, do not do this unless the horn is completely hooped and you don't mind breathing WD40. I reserve this technique for only the worst of my worst.

    You could also check to see if the lowest Bb is really sharp. If so, you might be suffering some unfortunate octave compression. Something that never seems to get addressed is that using valves does technically change the instrument's bore profile, and subsequently it changes how the instrument reacts to the mouthpiece. This isn't normally an issue since the most common instruments aren't very mouthpiece hateful. Alas, there's a reason why Alto things don't find their way into many ensembles.
    Hobbyist. Collector. Oval rotary guy. Unpaid shill for Josef Klier mouthpieces.

  3. #3
    Two things come to mind.

    First, and a little off the wall, are you SURE you got all the "stuff" out of the horn's nooks and crannies? It's possible something just got moved during cleaning and found its way back to a bad spot.

    Second, leaky valves could cause funny things to happen. The amount they are sealed or not might change a bit as you play. The normal moisture byproduct of playing could actually help seal things to seal. *OR* the oil you apply before practice may lose effectiveness as you play and let more leakage happen.

    But if the note is consistently in tune with 13, that would weaken both arguments above.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
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