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Thread: Euph Models for Grad School

  1. Question Euph Models for Grad School

    Hello , I’ve been on this forum for a while and have never posted!

    I currently play on a Yamaha 642S (pre neo) and now that I’m looking to continue music in graduate school, I’d like to upgrade. I am from Texas, and during TMEA I tested a few models that I absolutely loved. Shires Custom euphonium, the Adams E1, Besson 2052, and Yamaha 842S (non trigger) are among my top picks to upgrade to.

    For the Adams I was able to test the sterling silver model and the regular selected series, however I’m unsure of what to look for when comparing those.

    I was hoping y’all could give me more insight on these brands or even other brands!

  2. #2
    Welcome to the forum!

    That's a pretty good lineup you're considering. Your question about which Adams is kinda complex, actually.

    There are 3 models of Adams euphonium, not counting the marching horn: E1, E2, E3. Within each of those are some options (as you experienced with the horn that had a sterling silver bell). ALL of them share some characteristics: excellent intonation (the best of any horn I have played), easy response from note to note and in various ranges, and hand-made construction using sheet metal for better resonance.

    E1: The original model. It is considered a good all-around choice and is easy to play. The sound is not as large as the E3 but it is a tad easier to control for a less experienced player. It is also the best choice for small ensembles, chamber, and solo/piano playing because the sound is a bit more focused. The sound "sings" very nicely. It might be more comparable to the Prestige 2051.

    E2: I think this might have been made to appeal to Willson players. It is heavier with some bracing differences, which gives it a very good "core" to the tone. The sound is powerful, but not quite as open as the E1 or E3.

    E3: This has a more open throat in the bell and creates a larger sound. It would be more aligned with the Prestige 2052. The sound is very open and sings well. It responds as easily as the other models, but can require more work to get the most out of it. Interestingly, I found it easier to play on things that required a delicate touch!

    The biggest option is the type of metal. The Selected models use yellow brass. This is what most horns use and is a good choice if you don't have a chance to sample others. It will sound nice as soon as you play it. You can also choose other brass alloys, which vary the amount of copper in the mix. Gold brass has a bit more copper and has a bit more "zing" to the sound. Red brass has the most copper and I find it to have a warm, dark sound.

    Metal thickness is another option with the E1 & E3 (I think the E2 comes with only one thickness: .80). The selected models use .60, which is a nice compromise. It balances its characteristics nicely. The .70 and .80 choices are less common and have a bit more power capability as you add thickness. In theory, lighter metal has a bit quicker response and a bit lighter sound. The lightest I would suggest is .55 if you really favor easy response and a lighter sound - but you would not have as much volume capability.

    Sterling silver is a special case and is only used in the bell, and more recently is an option for the leadpipe. It has the greatest range of tone for an experienced player to leverage. It is capable of great projection and sounds ranging from very dark to quite bright. It also adds a lot of cost!

    Mix & match will create more fine tuning if you have the luxury of trying a bunch of them. At the 2012 ITEC in Austria I had a chance to try one in .50 metal with a red brass bell. The bell helped give it more power and authority than the .50 would otherwise have, but the .50 metal made it VERY friendly to the player. That is just an example for an extreme illustration - I would not suggest it.

    When in doubt, get the selected model. It is less expensive and a good balance. If you want to ultimate in performance options, go with the sterling bell.

    As I was considering going to the E3, and then later as I was considering going with heavier brass instead of the sterling bell, I did A/B comparison videos. Perhaps they will help you see some of the differences I'm talking about. You need to listed with good speakers or headphones. And you may come away thinking, "Gee, there is hardly any difference." As a performer, I want a horn that lets me sound like me, so my basic style and tone concept will be there with the A or B choices. But there are differences to be heard "at the edges."

    If you like the sterling sound but don't want to spend the extra $1k+ for it, that second video shows an interesting option. Going to heavier metal helps get you much of the benefit with no price premium.

    E1 vs E3:
    https://youtu.be/7Uc_Ag0bYiE

    E3 sterling .60 vs. E3 .70 yellow:
    https://youtu.be/DlM1lC6moKw


    #adamscomparisons
    Last edited by davewerden; 02-27-2022 at 01:36 PM.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3
    Here is some discussion on the E1/E3 choice (but listen to the above videos first and see what you think):

    http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...nd-E3-Compared

    And here is discussion on the sterling vs yellow:

    http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...-Adams-Options

    The conversations will reveal at some point which horn is A and which is B.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  4. Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Welcome to the forum!

    That's a pretty good lineup you're considering. Your question about which Adams is kinda complex, actually.

    There are 3 models of Adams euphonium, not counting the marching horn: E1, E2, E3. Within each of those are some options (as you experienced with the horn that had a sterling silver bell). ALL of them share some characteristics: excellent intonation (the best of any horn I have played), easy response from note to note and in various ranges, and hand-made construction using sheet metal for better resonance.

    E1: The original model. It is considered a good all-around choice and is easy to play. The sound is not as large as the E3 but it is a tad easier to control for a less experienced player. It is also the best choice for small ensembles, chamber, and solo/piano playing because the sound is a bit more focused. The sound "sings" very nicely. It might be more comparable to the Prestige 2051.

    E2: I think this might have been made to appeal to Willson players. It is heavier with some bracing differences, which gives it a very good "core" to the tone. The sound is powerful, but not quite as open as the E1 or E3.

    E3: This has a more open throat in the bell and creates a larger sound. It would be more aligned with the Prestige 2052. The sound is very open and sings well. It responds as easily as the other models, but can require more work to get the most out of it. Interestingly, I found it easier to play on things that required a delicate touch!

    The biggest option is the type of metal. The Selected models use yellow brass. This is what most horns use and is a good choice if you don't have a chance to sample others. It will sound nice as soon as you play it. You can also choose other brass alloys, which vary the amount of copper in the mix. Gold brass has a bit more copper and has a bit more "zing" to the sound. Red brass has the most copper and I find it to have a warm, dark sound.

    Metal thickness is another option with the E1 & E3 (I think the E2 comes with only one thickness: .80). The selected models use .60, which is a nice compromise. It balances its characteristics nicely. The .70 and .80 choices are less common and have a bit more power capability as you add thickness. In theory, lighter metal has a bit quicker response and a bit lighter sound. The lightest I would suggest is .55 if you really favor easy response and a lighter sound - but you would not have as much volume capability.

    Sterling silver is a special case and is only used in the bell, and more recently is an option for the leadpipe. It has the greatest range of tone for an experienced player to leverage. It is capable of great projection and sounds ranging from very dark to quite bright. It also adds a lot of cost!

    Mix & match will create more fine tuning if you have the luxury of trying a bunch of them. At the 2012 ITEC in Austria I had a chance to try one in .50 metal with a red brass bell. The bell helped give it more power and authority than the .50 would otherwise have, but the .50 metal made it VERY friendly to the player. That is just an example for an extreme illustration - I would not suggest it.

    When in doubt, get the selected model. It is less expensive and a good balance. If you want to ultimate in performance options, go with the sterling bell.

    As I was considering going to the E3, and then later as I was considering going with heavier brass instead of the sterling bell, I did A/B comparison videos. Perhaps they will help you see some of the differences I'm talking about. You need to listed with good speakers or headphones. And you may come away thinking, "Gee, there is hardly any difference." As a performer, I want a horn that lets me sound like me, so my basic style and tone concept will be there with the A or B choices. But there are differences to be heard "at the edges."

    If you like the sterling sound but don't want to spend the extra $1k+ for it, that second video shows an interesting option. Going to heavier metal helps get you much of the benefit with no price premium.

    E1 vs E3:
    https://youtu.be/7Uc_Ag0bYiE

    E3 sterling .60 vs. E3 .70 yellow:
    https://youtu.be/DlM1lC6moKw


    #adamscomparisons
    Thanks for the reply, when I tested the E3 I found it a bit too stuffy sounding and felt muffled. I loved how Holst and some other solos sounded on the E1. However, the sterling silver bell felt weird because it was as if I could feel the notes responding more. I preferred the .60 thickness and the E1 just really sang to me. However, the Besson almost played itself when I tested it, David Childs actually listened as I played and described the horn to me some.

    I am planning to go to the University of Oklahoma as a TA, so I think I’d mostly be doing solo or band playing. Testing all the euphoniums at TMEA really made me realize some of the shortcomings of my Yamaha 642S!

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Farmington Hills, MI
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    472
    Good description of the SS bell. It really resonates and you can feel it in the horn. It allows you to produce different tonal characteristics depending on the music you are playing. For example you can get the singing sound needed in the Holst Second Suite solo or you can put an edge to the sound like the solo in Mars.

  6. I did Philip Sparke’s third movement of his Diamond Concerto No. 3 for some of my tests. I guess since I’m more used to a traditional style bell, suddenly feeling the note response with the Adams was a bit of whiplash. I liked the tone it offered, but I’d definitely need to test it again without a large crowd of people around!
    Last edited by bayoung36; 02-27-2022 at 10:14 PM.

  7. #7
    "As I was considering going to the E3, and then later as I was considering going with heavier brass instead of the sterling bell, I did A/B comparison videos. Perhaps they will help you see some of the differences I'm talking about. You need to listed with good speakers or headphones. And you may come away thinking, "Gee, there is hardly any difference." As a performer, I want a horn that lets me sound like me, so my basic style and tone concept will be there with the A or B choices. But there are differences to be heard "at the edges."

    I think Dave makes an excellent distinction here. Too many times we get lost the microscopic nuances of different horns, trying to figure out which is best. For most of us, these are distinctions without any meaningful difference. If I am sprinter, worrying about what shoe will shave .01 seconds off my time doesn't have any real meaning unless I am a top level competitor.

    Mike

  8. Excellent example, I feel like with a lot of horns it is difficult to find major distinctions. There are a few models that stand out to me, however it’s easy to get lost in the nuances. I loved the response of the yellow brass E1, but the sterling silver bell had a unique resonance. There’s definitely more tests I’ll need to do before making a decision!

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