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Thread: Mouthpiece design

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NYC metro area
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    523

    Mouthpiece design

    A few weeks ago I recall reading a post that mentioned that the BB1 mouthpiece, which I use, uses a different design philosophy than the very popular DW 4AL, and that mouthpieces like the 51D and BB1 are significantly different from DW or Alliance mouthpieces. Aside from the fact that the BB1 is a smaller rim diameter than the 4AL, what about the mouthpieces make one fall into say a British style versus say an American style? Forgive me if no one else uses the terms British versus American style; I'm just trying to summarize the impression I got from reading earlier comments.
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1 mouthpiece
    Bach 36B trombone; Bach 6.5AL and Faxx 7C mouthpieces (pBone on loan to granddaughter)
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo; RIP) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis area
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    1,003
    Dean,
    The BB series reminds me very much of an older British brand called Kosicup. I saw/tried a few Kosicups when I was in Lincolnshire a few decades ago. In that sense, it's kind of ironic that the BB series has come to represent the "American" style.
    The terms "British" and "American" are apt; I've frequently been accused of "American" style playing.
    Can anyone confirm/refute my strong suspicion that the BB mouthpieces are based upon the Kosicup?
    Jim
    Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meter CW)
    Formerly Principal Euphonium in a whole
    bunch of groups, now just a schlub.
    Shires Q41, Yamaha 321, 621 Baritone
    Wick 4AL, Wessex 4Y, or whatever I grab.
    Conn 50H trombone, Blue P-bone
    www.soundcloud.com/jweuph

  3. I'm trying to find a written source, but I do remember either reading or hearing from Dr. Bowman that the BB series exterior shape was indeed based on the old Kosikup design.
    Willson 2900 TA-1 Euphonium - Denis Wick 4AM
    Yamaha YSL-643 Trombone - Bob Reeves BrassArk 5G "Gladstone"
    Yamaha YSL-8440 Trombone - Denis Wick 5BS
    VMI 3301S BBb Tuba - Schilke Helleberg

    Past:
    York Preference 3067 Euphonium - Denis Wick 4AL
    Benge 165F Trombone - Benge Marcellus
    Wessex BR140 Baritone - Denis Wick 6BS
    F.E. Olds Special Trombone (ca. 1941)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
    Posts
    1,869
    I also heard/read/saw/dreamed that the Kosikup was the basis for the style of the BB pieces. When I got my 1956 Boosey & Hawkes euphonium a while back, guess what original mouthpiece came with it? A Kosikup 1 1/2! It had been around the track, but it still worked fine. I wanted to get an additional piece (replacement if needed) and went with the BB 2 EU which looks similar. I am pretty sure when I read about the 3 pieces that were in the Brian Bowman collection, the 2 piece was fashioned after the Kosikup.

    Here are three pictures with the Brian Bowman BB 2 EU on the left and the Kosikup 1 1/2 on the right in each:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  5. #5
    Hello John and all,

    You were correct that you heard/saw that the Kosikup was the basis for the style of the BB pieces. In 2019 I had done some research and located (and copied for my records) a TubeNet post by Dr Bowman, dated August 14, 2005 where he confirms that the BB2 is the exact copy of the Kosikup 1 1/2. Based on his post, I bought BB2 Euroshank as a spare for my Euphonium.
    (I'm reluctant to copy and paste the screen shot here as I don't have permission)

    Regards,
    Euph Loosh
    Imperial by Boosey & Hawkes 4-valve Euphonium (mid-1950's)
    MPs: Kosikup 1 1/2, Bowman BB2 Euro shank, Denis Wick 4AM; Marcus Bonna case

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NYC metro area
    Posts
    523
    Quote Originally Posted by Euph Loosh View Post
    [snip]post by Dr Bowman, dated August 14, 2005 where he confirms that the BB2 is the exact copy of the Kosikup 1 1/2. [snip]
    I find that very interesting. I had read that the BB1 was a tweaked version of the Schilke 51D. I don't recall the source.
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1 mouthpiece
    Bach 36B trombone; Bach 6.5AL and Faxx 7C mouthpieces (pBone on loan to granddaughter)
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo; RIP) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post
    I find that very interesting. I had read that the BB1 was a tweaked version of the Schilke 51D. I don't recall the source.
    You are correct. The BB1 is based on the 51D. Dave Houser designed the cup with feedback from Brian Bowman. Dave said the cup has a strange, but it was the one that Bowman liked the best.

    Mike

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