I have a Besson Model 181 4-valve compensating euphonium purchased in 1966. It came with a Besson 10 mouthpiece, something about which (the mouthpiece) I can find little on the internet, as far as specifications are concerned. From what I gather the shank is a Euro shank. My question is whether or not a Wick 4AL mouthpiece would fit this instrument? Thank you.
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1966 Besson euphonium and Wick 4AL mouthpiece
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Actually the Euro size is 4AM.Last edited by RickF; 02-04-2022, 01:22 PM.Rick Floyd
Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
"Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
The Cowboys (John Williams, arr. James Curnow)
Festive Overture (Dmitri Shostakovich)​
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Originally posted by kranbridge View PostThanks to both for your responses. Re the 4AL/4AM, I was sort of wondering inasmuch as on the Wick website there didn't seem to be subsets (small, medium, large) of the 4AL. Will the 4AM play similarly to the 4AL?
Again, thanks for your thoughts.JP374 Sterling + Mercer and Barker GW3
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The 4AM is the correct mouthpiece for the medium shank Besson 181 (New Standard/Imperial). The Besson 10 mouthpiece is really a miserable excuse for a mouthpiece shaped object. Back in the day, I replaced my Besson 10 with a Bach 6 1/2AL and the medium to small shank adapter that was included with that horn (in addition to the Besson 10).Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
Concord Band
Winchendon Winds
Townsend Military Band
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Originally posted by kranbridge View PostThank you, daruby, for your thoughts, especially about the Besson 10 mouthpiece. Yikes, it's the only one I've ever had. What makes it so lousy, if I may ask. Thank you.
For me, at the time, the Bach 6 1/2AL was perfect. In 1980, I purchased my first Sovereign 967. It came with the Wick 4AL which took me several years to transition to after so many years of playing the 6 1/2AL. I switched between the two until the 4AL became my "go to" in the mid 1980s. I have been playing a 4AL ever since.Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
Concord Band
Winchendon Winds
Townsend Military Band
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Suggest also considering the Alliance line - they offer a DC3M (euro shank).
https://www.alliancebrassltd.com/pro...24353027343750David Shinn
Peninsula Concert Band
Yorktown, Virginia
1971 Besson 181 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3+1 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
1971 Besson 176 ‘New Standard’ Euphonium (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC3M
1979 Besson 755 'New Standard' Baritone (3 compensating) ~ Alliance DC5S
1894 Besson ‘Doublophone’ Euphonium (3 + 1 changeover) & Original Leather Case
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidshinn....ibextid=LQQJ4d
Peninsula Concert Band: https://www.peninsulaconcertband.org/
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Originally posted by Shinn View PostSuggest also considering the Alliance line - they offer a DC3M (euro shank).
The largest I would suggest is a Wick 6BM. It is a little shallower than the "A" cups in Wick and the rim diameter is similar to the 6-1/2 that Doug mentioned.
FWIW, I wanted to go to a Wick 4AL when I was playing on a 6-1/2AL and could not do it easily in a single step. I moved first to a Bach 5G, then to a Wick 4BL, and finally to the Wick 4AL I played for many years. But some people can make a jump more easily.
Here are many medium-shank mouthpieces, for reference:
http://www.dwerden.com/Mouthpieces/t...Euro&compare=0Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
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For the entertainment of the 2 other nerds on the planet...reverse-engineered Besson 10 specs!!
Rim OD: ~37.4mm
Rim type: Round, Very Narrow
Cup diameter: ~24.4mm
Cup depth: Deeper than 6 1/2AL. Shallower than 5G. (Approx. Schilke 44E4 or JK D-cup)
Cup shape: Deep narrow bowl?
Throat: ~6.7 or 6.8mm
Length: ~83.5mm
Shank: Besson medium shank (Approx. 11.7mm @ 1:19)
Best I can tell, it's made of some kind of plated nickel silver, which is pretty unusual. In summary, this is basically a medium shank Schilke 44E4 with a round rim, big throat, and garbage backbore because it's old. Despite the large throat, this mouthpiece is somehow not capable of producing an in-tune 8th partial on the 2-20 Baritone. Probably because it's not very good. Totally the kind of mouthpiece that I would have loved when I was in HS. Fortunately, I have since then discovered that I can just buy custom mouthpieces and satisfy my bad taste in cup diameter with something that's otherwise good.Hobbyist. Collector. Oval rotary guy. Unpaid shill for Josef Klier mouthpieces.
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