1966 Besson euphonium and Wick 4AL mouthpiece

[kranbridge]

I have a Besson Model 181 4-valve compensating euphonium purchased in 1966. It came with a Besson 10 mouthpiece, something about which (the mouthpiece) I can find little on the internet, as far as specifications are concerned. From what I gather the shank is a Euro shank. My question is whether or not a Wick 4AL mouthpiece would fit this instrument? Thank you.

[highpitch]

4AL's come in three shanks: small, medium (What you want), and large.

DG

[RickF]

Actually the Euro size is 4AM.

[kranbridge]

Thanks to both for your responses. Re the 4AL/4AM, I was sort of wondering inasmuch as on the Wick website there didn't seem to be subsets (small, medium, large) of the 4AL. Will the 4AM play similarly to the 4AL?

Again, thanks for your thoughts.

[DEF1]

Thanks to both for your responses. Re the 4AL/4AM, I was sort of wondering inasmuch as on the Wick website there didn't seem to be subsets (small, medium, large) of the 4AL. Will the 4AM play similarly to the 4AL?

Again, thanks for your thoughts.

The 4AM is exactly the same as the 4AL other than the shank size.

[daruby]

The 4AM is the correct mouthpiece for the medium shank Besson 181 (New Standard/Imperial). The Besson 10 mouthpiece is really a miserable excuse for a mouthpiece shaped object. Back in the day, I replaced my Besson 10 with a Bach 6 1/2AL and the medium to small shank adapter that was included with that horn (in addition to the Besson 10).

[kranbridge]

Thank you for your input, DEF1.

[kranbridge]

Thank you, daruby, for your thoughts, especially about the Besson 10 mouthpiece. Yikes, it's the only one I've ever had. What makes it so lousy, if I may ask. Thank you.

[daruby]

Thank you, daruby, for your thoughts, especially about the Besson 10 mouthpiece. Yikes, it's the only one I've ever had. What makes it so lousy, if I may ask. Thank you.

Of course this is based on my experience, but I first played "your horn" in spring of 1969 as a senior in high school and then again from Fall of 1971 to Spring of 1974 at UC Berkeley. Both of these horns came with both the Besson 10 and an adapter that allowed the use of a Tenor shank mouthpiece. In early 1969 I played a Bach 12 (!!) and in later 1969 I switched to a 6 1/2AL. I found the Besson 10 restrictive even when compared with the tiny Bach 12. I recall a somewhat sharp rim which made flexibility difficult for my embouchure. Note: that I played a Conn Connstellation prior to the Besson, and found similar characteristics with the OEM Conn 3 mouthpiece.

For me, at the time, the Bach 6 1/2AL was perfect. In 1980, I purchased my first Sovereign 967. It came with the Wick 4AL which took me several years to transition to after so many years of playing the 6 1/2AL. I switched between the two until the 4AL became my "go to" in the mid 1980s. I have been playing a 4AL ever since.

[Shinn]

Suggest also considering the Alliance line - they offer a DC3M (euro shank).

https://www.alliancebrassltd.com/pro...24353027343750

[kranbridge]

Thanks for your suggestion.

[davewerden]

Suggest also considering the Alliance line - they offer a DC3M (euro shank).

Be aware that this is a LOT larger than what you are used to in the Besson 10! It would be a tough transition. It is slightly larger-feeling than a 4AL. I now play the Alliance DC4, and it feels very slightly smaller than the 4AL - still a big jump from the 10.

The largest I would suggest is a Wick 6BM. It is a little shallower than the "A" cups in Wick and the rim diameter is similar to the 6-1/2 that Doug mentioned.

FWIW, I wanted to go to a Wick 4AL when I was playing on a 6-1/2AL and could not do it easily in a single step. I moved first to a Bach 5G, then to a Wick 4BL, and finally to the Wick 4AL I played for many years. But some people can make a jump more easily.

Here are many medium-shank mouthpieces, for reference:

http://www.dwerden.com/Mouthpieces/t...Euro&compare=0

[kranbridge]

Mr. Werden (don't know your USCG rank, don't know how to best and respectfully address you--thank you for serving, in any case): Thank you for your comments.

[notaverygoodname]

For the entertainment of the 2 other nerds on the planet...reverse-engineered Besson 10 specs!!

Rim OD: ~37.4mm
Rim type: Round, Very Narrow
Cup diameter: ~24.4mm
Cup depth: Deeper than 6 1/2AL. Shallower than 5G. (Approx. Schilke 44E4 or JK D-cup)
Cup shape: Deep narrow bowl?
Throat: ~6.7 or 6.8mm
Length: ~83.5mm
Shank: Besson medium shank (Approx. 11.7mm @ 1:19)

Best I can tell, it's made of some kind of plated nickel silver, which is pretty unusual. In summary, this is basically a medium shank Schilke 44E4 with a round rim, big throat, and garbage backbore because it's old. Despite the large throat, this mouthpiece is somehow not capable of producing an in-tune 8th partial on the 2-20 Baritone. Probably because it's not very good. Totally the kind of mouthpiece that I would have loved when I was in HS. Fortunately, I have since then discovered that I can just buy custom mouthpieces and satisfy my bad taste in cup diameter with something that's otherwise good.

[kranbridge]

Thank you for the information.