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Thread: John Packer 374 Sterling Intonation

  1. John Packer 374 Sterling Intonation

    Hello Folks!

    I purchased one of these euphoniums a little over a month ago and have been steadily breaking it in. I do have a question though...

    It plays flat! I'm using a Schilke 51D and have to work really hard to get it into tune, and that's with the tuning slides pushed all the way in.

    I'm a band director and can grab a yamaha 321S with a standard mouthpiece and can play that horn in tune throughout most of the range, but it's really a struggle on the JP!

    Does anyone have a similar experience with the JP and its intonation?

  2. #2
    Welcome to the forum!

    Do you use a 51D on the Yamaha? The mouthpiece can make a difference. Also, some of the Schilke's (depending on their age, I think) were made with longer shanks, which were suitable for trombone but IMO caused intonation issues on euphoniums.

    Having said that, take a look at the page below. The the box for the JP Packer and look at the tendencies (from a test a few years ago; newer production may be different). There are many notes that are flat, and that could give one a feeling of "flatness" in normal playing. Does that look/feel familiar?

    http://www.dwerden.com/Intonation/
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    What Dave said about the 51D mpc makes sense as a possible contributing factor. When I played my Yamaha 641 I found the 51D helped me since the 641 was made too sharp. Every euph player I talked to who played a 641 had to pull out their main slide over an inch (the lead pipe is 3/4” shorter than the 642 and subsequent models). The 51D allowed me to push the MTS in about 3/8”. The Wick 5AL is close to the 51D if you like that rim width.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Greensleeves (arr. Alfred Reed)


  4. Thanks for your response, and it does seem the mouthpiece may be part of the problem, do you have a recommendation for another mouthpiece I can try?

  5. Thank you, Rick!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jstainback View Post
    Thanks for your response, and it does seem the mouthpiece may be part of the problem, do you have a recommendation for another mouthpiece I can try?
    Rick's suggestion is a good one. One could assume the JP Packer, with its British influence, would be happier with a Wick mouthpiece. The 5AL has an open throat and a pretty sound. It won't sound as "dark" as the 51D, but it is capable of a nice wide range of sounds and is probably a bit easier to use above high Bb concert.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Varese,Italy
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    254
    Quote Originally Posted by jstainback View Post
    Does anyone have a similar experience with the JP and its intonation?
    I bought a used (but practically new) 373 JP Packer baritone a few years ago: it sounded flat, not just the overall pitch, but also by operating the individual pistons. I cut all the slides, 1st, 3rd and main by about 15mm and the 2nd by 5mm per leg. Now it sounds perfectly in tune with the exception of the Eb and Ab which are slightly flat due to the length of the compensating tube of the 2nd piston which is too long (in my opinion). I also like the sound, projection and ease of response. I use a modified K&G 4B mouthpiece myself: deeper and wider cup which I alternate with a modified K&G T4C and SM4M.
    Last edited by franz; 01-25-2022 at 07:46 PM.
    Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone,4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves 1974, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NYC metro area
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    457
    Quote Originally Posted by jstainback View Post
    Thanks for your response, and it does seem the mouthpiece may be part of the problem, do you have a recommendation for another mouthpiece I can try?
    The Bowman BB1 is a tweaked version of the 51D. Perhaps it'll work for you.
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1 (DE 101XTG9 mouthpiece in the drawer)
    Bach 36B trombone; Bach 6.5AL mouthpiece (pBone on loan to granddaughter)
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

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