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Thread: Shires Modular Receiver and Trigger Pictures

  1. #1

    Shires Modular Receiver and Trigger Pictures

    Hey everyone,

    I just received the Shires trigger kit and the modular receiver with some bits in the mail this weekend. Figured I would take some pictures pre-installation and share with you all here. I tried to get pictures to show how the modular receiver works and how my SM4U fits with different bits. You can see how the gap is different with each bit and how it looks from the opposite end of the receiver (can't get those angles post installation!)

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xtecitpfr...xuC4RFpNa?dl=0

    The pictures should have comments with some info regarding the receiver and which bits are with which mouthpiece.

    I plan on having the trigger and the receiver installed on my Q40 this week and will follow up with post-installation pictures and thoughts!
    Last edited by stevevaughn; 01-10-2022 at 09:31 AM. Reason: wrong link
    Steven Vaughn, D.M.A.
    Professor of Euphonium, University of Northern Colorado
    S.E. Shires Euphonium Artist

    Principal Tuba - Fort Collins Symphony
    Solo Euphonium - Colorado Brass

    Eastman 836 CC Tuba
    Meinl Weston 2182W F Tuba
    Shires Q40 Euphonium

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida
    Posts
    1,586
    Interesting! Is the trigger going to need to be soldered on or is this not required?

    The modular receiver and different bits are also interesting. I wonder how much similarity that has to the Adams adjustable gap receiver?
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Kingdom of the Sun Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)

  3. #3
    Yes the trigger has to be soldered on.

    I think the receiver is quite a bit different from the Adams AGR. With the AGR I believe you are literally adjusting the gap, but I'm not sure how you know where the end of the mouthpiece is in relation to that in order to know how to adjust it. I have not tried one, ever, so this is just my best guess, but I imagine you try a setting, play some notes, and see what you think and adjust until you find the setting that feels right to you.

    With the Shires receiver & bits configuration you can test different bits and see the exact gap you are going to have as the end of the bit will always go right up to the beginning of the mouthpipe. To me, this seems more manageable. I'd rather say "I like to use the #2.5 bit with XYZ mouthpiece because it has a XYZ gap" and know exactly what that gap is, rather than having to guess what the gap is on an AGR receiver, and have to remember exactly where that setting is. Although, assuming you don't change mouthpieces very often that isn't too big of a deal since you could probably just "set it and forget it" once you find the setting you like.

    I'm sure Dave can chime in with his thoughts on the Adams AGR since he has 100% more experience with that setup than me! But I am excited to test out this receiver. The biggest reason I am having it put on is that the Denis Wick/Alliance mouthpieces do NOT work with the "out-of-the-box" Eastman/Shires receivers IMO. It goes in way too far and causes a lot of problems with intonation and response. Works great if you play a Bowman or a Schilke mouthpiece or any other "American" mouthpiece.
    Steven Vaughn, D.M.A.
    Professor of Euphonium, University of Northern Colorado
    S.E. Shires Euphonium Artist

    Principal Tuba - Fort Collins Symphony
    Solo Euphonium - Colorado Brass

    Eastman 836 CC Tuba
    Meinl Weston 2182W F Tuba
    Shires Q40 Euphonium

  4. #4
    Seems shortsighted of Eastman/Shires to use an out of the box configuration that doesn't work well with one of the most popular mouthpiece lines for euphonium.

    Do you know whether this is something they've addressed on the Solo/Custom line (and on future Q series horns)?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevevaughn View Post
    Yes the trigger has to be soldered on.

    I think the receiver is quite a bit different from the Adams AGR. With the AGR I believe you are literally adjusting the gap, but I'm not sure how you know where the end of the mouthpiece is in relation to that in order to know how to adjust it. I have not tried one, ever, so this is just my best guess, but I imagine you try a setting, play some notes, and see what you think and adjust until you find the setting that feels right to you.

    With the Shires receiver & bits configuration you can test different bits and see the exact gap you are going to have as the end of the bit will always go right up to the beginning of the mouthpipe. To me, this seems more manageable. I'd rather say "I like to use the #2.5 bit with XYZ mouthpiece because it has a XYZ gap" and know exactly what that gap is, rather than having to guess what the gap is on an AGR receiver, and have to remember exactly where that setting is. Although, assuming you don't change mouthpieces very often that isn't too big of a deal since you could probably just "set it and forget it" once you find the setting you like.

    I'm sure Dave can chime in with his thoughts on the Adams AGR since he has 100% more experience with that setup than me! But I am excited to test out this receiver. The biggest reason I am having it put on is that the Denis Wick/Alliance mouthpieces do NOT work with the "out-of-the-box" Eastman/Shires receivers IMO. It goes in way too far and causes a lot of problems with intonation and response. Works great if you play a Bowman or a Schilke mouthpiece or any other "American" mouthpiece.
    Mike Taylor

    Illinois Brass Band

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by miketeachesclass View Post
    Seems shortsighted of Eastman/Shires to use an out of the box configuration that doesn't work well with one of the most popular mouthpiece lines for euphonium.

    Do you know whether this is something they've addressed on the Solo/Custom line (and on future Q series horns)?
    The Solo/Custom line comes with the modular receiver pre-installed, so you can get the bits that work for whatever mouthpiece you want. Luckily, the same modular receiver is able to be retrofitted on my Q40S.
    Steven Vaughn, D.M.A.
    Professor of Euphonium, University of Northern Colorado
    S.E. Shires Euphonium Artist

    Principal Tuba - Fort Collins Symphony
    Solo Euphonium - Colorado Brass

    Eastman 836 CC Tuba
    Meinl Weston 2182W F Tuba
    Shires Q40 Euphonium

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Farmington Hills, MI
    Posts
    351
    Quote Originally Posted by stevevaughn View Post
    Yes the trigger has to be soldered on.

    I think the receiver is quite a bit different from the Adams AGR. With the AGR I believe you are literally adjusting the gap, but I'm not sure how you know where the end of the mouthpiece is in relation to that in order to know how to adjust it. I have not tried one, ever, so this is just my best guess, but I imagine you try a setting, play some notes, and see what you think and adjust until you find the setting that feels right to you.

    With the Shires receiver & bits configuration you can test different bits and see the exact gap you are going to have as the end of the bit will always go right up to the beginning of the mouthpipe. To me, this seems more manageable. I'd rather say "I like to use the #2.5 bit with XYZ mouthpiece because it has a XYZ gap" and know exactly what that gap is, rather than having to guess what the gap is on an AGR receiver, and have to remember exactly where that setting is. Although, assuming you don't change mouthpieces very often that isn't too big of a deal since you could probably just "set it and forget it" once you find the setting you like.

    I'm sure Dave can chime in with his thoughts on the Adams AGR since he has 100% more experience with that setup than me! But I am excited to test out this receiver. The biggest reason I am having it put on is that the Denis Wick/Alliance mouthpieces do NOT work with the "out-of-the-box" Eastman/Shires receivers IMO. It goes in way too far and causes a lot of problems with intonation and response. Works great if you play a Bowman or a Schilke mouthpiece or any other "American" mouthpiece.
    The question that comes to mind is do we need to know the exact gap? With the Shires you need to know which combination gives you the response you desire. The Adams is basically the same but itís infinitely adjustable through its range of movement. The AGR makes this very easy.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida
    Posts
    1,586
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelSchott View Post
    The question that comes to mind is do we need to know the exact gap? With the Shires you need to know which combination gives you the response you desire. The Adams is basically the same but it’s infinitely adjustable through its range of movement. The AGR makes this very easy.
    Michael - That is exactly what I was going to say before you said it for me. It is pretty easy to adjust on my Adams. I put in a mouthpiece, try it in various settings (turns of the receiver to get the gap I want), then leave it where I like the sound/response. It is rather easy to pair the particular mouthpiece with the number of turns needed or wanted to suit myself. Less hardware to deal with. With the Adams, you can also get your choice of stainless steel or nickel-silver and perhaps other types of material for the receiver. So, in the end it seems like you have more hardware and fewer choices on gaps with the Shires than an infinitely adjustable gap receiver like the Adams which doesn't require additional bits and pieces beyond the original receiver. I frankly don't care what the gap is, just that I can adjust it to one that works for me and then easily note the turns to get there with the mouthpiece I am using.

    Are you able to use different size shanks with the Shires setup? Those bits reminded me of mouthpiece adapters.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Kingdom of the Sun Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)

  8. #8
    Thanks Steve. Itís exciting that we will have a US maker producing a high end euphonium again. I think Kanstul made one before they closed but there isnít another to my knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by stevevaughn View Post
    The Solo/Custom line comes with the modular receiver pre-installed, so you can get the bits that work for whatever mouthpiece you want. Luckily, the same modular receiver is able to be retrofitted on my Q40S.
    Mike Taylor

    Illinois Brass Band

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    Michael - That is exactly what I was going to say before you said it for me. It is pretty easy to adjust on my Adams. I put in a mouthpiece, try it in various settings (turns of the receiver to get the gap I want), then leave it where I like the sound/response. It is rather easy to pair the particular mouthpiece with the number of turns needed or wanted to suit myself. Less hardware to deal with. With the Adams, you can also get your choice of stainless steel or nickel-silver and perhaps other types of material for the receiver. So, in the end it seems like you have more hardware and fewer choices on gaps with the Shires than an infinitely adjustable gap receiver like the Adams which doesn't require additional bits and pieces beyond the original receiver. I frankly don't care what the gap is, just that I can adjust it to one that works for me and then easily note the turns to get there with the mouthpiece I am using.

    Are you able to use different size shanks with the Shires setup? Those bits reminded me of mouthpiece adapters.
    Glad to hear that the Adams AGR is easy to use, and what you said makes sense. I think being an engineering-type person I like to know the details/measurements of what I'm doing, but I do appreciate the simplicity of the Adams AGR. I think if I had infinite control over the gap I would be getting too worked up over something like the difference between a quarter-turn or an eighth-turn, haha! The bits narrow down the choices for me which for me, makes my life simpler.

    Yes, with the Shires setup you could get a medium shank bit to use a medium shank mouthpiece and be able to alternate between large/medium as desired. Not sure if that would make a Q41 play like a Q41M or not, but it's interesting that you could do that!
    Steven Vaughn, D.M.A.
    Professor of Euphonium, University of Northern Colorado
    S.E. Shires Euphonium Artist

    Principal Tuba - Fort Collins Symphony
    Solo Euphonium - Colorado Brass

    Eastman 836 CC Tuba
    Meinl Weston 2182W F Tuba
    Shires Q40 Euphonium

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida
    Posts
    1,586
    Quote Originally Posted by stevevaughn View Post
    ...I think if I had infinite control over the gap I would be getting too worked up over something like the difference between a quarter-turn or an eighth-turn, haha! The bits narrow down the choices for me which for me, makes my life simpler...
    Now you have a point there, for sure!! When I first got my Adams almost 6 years ago, I didn't even mess with the AGR at first except to set it all in. Then after a short period to get used to the horn, I started the dosey-doe with the AGR by trying it in about a gazillion different settings. Then realized that a quarter turn probably had about no discernable effect, so I limited my changes to full turns (I think, been a while). I eventually settled on 2 or 3 full turns out for me. I haven't really messed with it much since then. Plus I am using the same mouthpiece I have ever used on this horn, the Warburton Demondrae model, which for me is the best mouthpiece I have had the pleasure to put my old lips on.

    Actually, now that I am fully engaged in thinking about the AGR, I remember at first trying it all in, then trying it full out (or as out as I could get it without worrying about it falling off). I wanted to see what the extremes were. From there I believe I was able to make somewhat decent decisions on which way I wanted to go. Was fun until it wasn't. I also realized after a few years that I needed to grease the receiver if I ever wanted it to move again. Fortunately, I got to that in the nick of time.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Kingdom of the Sun Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)

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