Adams players: What oil do you use?

[spkissane]

So I'm in a bit of a pickle lately.... I love, love, love my Adams E1. It's got the exact sound profile I want in a euphonium, responds fantastically, takes anything I give it. It's the best horn *for me* I've ever played.

But in testing out other makes/models for my job, I have found certain horns with lighter/faster valve action - specifically the Shires Q series - which has me wondering how the action on my E1 might be improved.

So before I go try to get the pistons themselves worked on (which I'm open to, if anyone else has done this and has input), I figured the easiest change I could make is the valve oil I'm using. I currently use Blue Juice. My questions to Adams owners are - have you noticed the same thing with the valves vs other horns as I am, and what oil do you use?

[davewerden]

Mine can be very fast when I'm using Blue Juice or Hetmann #1. I'm also testing the Yamaha light oil, which seems similar to Hetmann but maybe not quite as light.

Are all 3 valves about the same? If so, I would start by using some Flitz polish on the piston of one. Don't get too aggressive right around the port openings, but otherwise you can polish well with no worries. That will clean off any deposits that may be stubbornly stuck on the piston. If it speeds it up, then you've identified the issue.

There are also some spray cleaners for stainless steel counters/etc. that cleans pretty well, but I'm a little nervous about what it might do to the brass passages within the pistons.

[guidocorona]

Hello Sean, a few years ago Monster Oil formulated a synthetic valve oil doped with small amounts of silicon particularly designed for the tight valves of Adams horns. Amongst other sources, it is available from Austin Custom Brass at:

https://www.austincustombrass.biz/ad...m-monster-oil/

Regards, Guido

[Shinn]

Though not the intended audience (Adam’s Owners), any consideration or advice regarding springs?

[Richard III]

Hello Sean, a few years ago Monster Oil formulated a synthetic valve oil doped with small amounts of silicon particularly designed for the tight valves of Adams horns. Amongst other sources, it is available from Austin Custom Brass at:

https://www.austincustombrass.biz/ad...m-monster-oil/

Regards, Guido

A few years ago I was having problems with my valves on my Adams flugelhorn. I tried the special Monster Oils formulated specially for Adams. No improvement, in fact maybe a little worse.

I had the horn ultrasonically cleaned and it immediately improved. I would seem I hadn't been cleaning quite thoroughly enough. Also, using the lighter oil, it seemed to not stay on the valves. I went back to Hetman 2 and the valves were fine.

[JakeGuilbo]

I found on all the Adams I've played that Blue Juice works the best for me and my chemistry. I picked up a set of those cleaning spitballs and any valve problems quickly go away. For springs, the only springs that have worked for me with Adams horns have been the Mead LIGHT springs. The Regular Mead springs are too heavy and the normal Adams OEM springs too gummy and cause a lot of valve bounce on the upstroke. The mead light springs just work and work great.

[davewerden]

I found on all the Adams I've played that Blue Juice works the best for me and my chemistry. I picked up a set of those cleaning spitballs and any valve problems quickly go away. For springs, the only springs that have worked for me with Adams horns have been the Mead LIGHT springs. The Regular Mead springs are too heavy and the normal Adams OEM springs too gummy and cause a lot of valve bounce on the upstroke. The mead light springs just work and work great.

I'm right where you are for the springs! The originals were too soft for me. I like the Mead Light as well for simplicity, but I personally bought 2 sets of the normal Mean springs so I could avoid using the 1st valve spring, which really is too stiff in the Adams valves (because of less space between the piston and bottom cap).

[John Morgan]

I have had my Adams E3 about 5 1/2 years. I have tried several oils. Yamaha synthetic, Hetman, Monster and Blue Juice that I remember. I go in spurts. I am using Blue Juice now. I did have my valves "polished" by Lee Stofer a few years back with good results. My valves have always been a little bit finicky. Really have to keep them clean. The Blue Juice, which I used, then didn't use, now use again, seems to have to be applied frequently. In the summer, I get sticky valves more so than in the winter. Heat does something it seems. Blue Juice seems to give me the least amount of gunk buildup. Picking the right valve oil and keeping valves clean and working good is a life journey that I think will never end...

[davewerden]

Blue Juice seems to give me the least amount of gunk buildup. Picking the right valve oil and keeping valves clean and working good is a life journey that I think will never end...

That reminds me of one of my theories! Blue Juice and other standard oils DO require more frequent application, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Because I have the habit of always wiping down the piston before I apply oil, more frequent oiling means more frequent wiping off gunk...which contributes to keeping the valves clean.

[spkissane]

I just had my horn cleaned at the shop, and I pretty much oil before every gig and rehearsal.... I switched to Al Cass the last couple times and, thought it may be psychosomatic, it SEEMS to make an improvement? I have always kind of lumped most "basic" oils into the same category (Al Cass, Blue Juice, Five Starr, Accent, any generic store branded oil etc.), and figured they were all pretty much interchangeable. Perhaps I'm wrong about that?

I did have my valves "polished" by Lee Stofer a few years back with good results.

John, is his "polishing" procedure different from a regular lapping?

[davewerden]

I just had my horn cleaned at the shop, and I pretty much oil before every gig and rehearsal.... I switched to Al Cass the last couple times and, thought it may be psychosomatic, it SEEMS to make an improvement? I have always kind of lumped most "basic" oils into the same category (Al Cass, Blue Juice, Five Starr, Accent, any generic store branded oil etc.), and figured they were all pretty much interchangeable. Perhaps I'm wrong about that?

John, is his "polishing" procedure different from a regular lapping?

Lee did the same polishing on my valves. He is not using an abrasive like a lapping compound, just something akin to the Flitz that I use. There can be deposits that build up over time and are the very dickens to clean off! Even my little ultrasonic cleaner won't get rid of such deposits, probably because to clean those I would have to use a fluid in the ultrasonic's tub that could harm the brass caucades in the pistons.

A typical cleaning at a shop won't get at the tough stuff. It is good for cleaning out the passages, so it is not money wasted. The Spitballs only help a bit, but at some point one has to get serious about cleaning the passages. Then the entire valve casing has to be cleaned separately, because the flush from a shop won't really touch that. Be sure to use a wooden or plastic tool to scrape out the slot that the valve guide travels in. Then clean bottom and top caps.

Even with all that, it can be very hard to get all the little curvy passages clean, especially the short runs between valves. That's were the shop's flush might do the most good, assuming the allow ample time for the build-up to soften and flush out.

[John Morgan]

I just had my horn cleaned at the shop, and I pretty much oil before every gig and rehearsal.... I switched to Al Cass the last couple times and, thought it may be psychosomatic, it SEEMS to make an improvement? I have always kind of lumped most "basic" oils into the same category (Al Cass, Blue Juice, Five Starr, Accent, any generic store branded oil etc.), and figured they were all pretty much interchangeable. Perhaps I'm wrong about that?



John, is his "polishing" procedure different from a regular lapping?

Ditto what Dave said. They looked really clean and shinny when Lee did it.

One way I have to see if the valves need cleaning, particularly when they stick, is to pull the valve out and look in the holes of the valves. If there is any buildup of gunk right at the opening to any valve hole, that tells me to clean it. I should probably clean even before I see this. I suspect this gunk gets into the space between the valve and valve chamber/housing and causes the sticking.