Originally posted by Snake Charmer
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Wessex French C Tuba TC 236 P
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Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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Originally posted by ghmerrill View PostBut isn't the intonation of the horn with the Bb extension pretty dreadful?2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.
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Interesting. I wonder if that's because the proportion of the cylindrical tubing to conical tubing in that horn is relatively high compared to most tubas. Acoustics (especially of conical tubes) is a bizarrely complex science.Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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The effects of putting in cylindrical pieces of tubing into an instrument should be manageable. Otherwise every horn would bring you into trouble when pressing a valve.
More effect has the number of used valves and the following more curves and bends = more resistance!
(For that I love the 2 tone 3rd valve!) This is the reason why the French C Tuba is much more consistent in sound in the low register than a compensated horn. If properly played you can not hear a sound difference between Db (4+6) and a CC (0). Try this with BB and BBb on a compensator...
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Originally posted by Snake Charmer View PostThe effects of putting in cylindrical pieces of tubing into an instrument should be manageable.
Otherwise every horn would bring you into trouble when pressing a valve.
More effect has the number of used valves and the following more curves and bends = more resistance!
(For that I love the 2 tone 3rd valve!) This is the reason why the French C Tuba is much more consistent in sound in the low register than a compensated horn.
If properly played you can not hear a sound difference between Db (4+6) and a CC (0). Try this with BB and BBb on a compensator...Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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Originally posted by ghmerrill View Post...I'm lost here. If "properly played", there is no difference in pitch between a Db and a C?
On a euphonium, go from using 2-4 for the low B natural (bass clef) to the open Bb, and on most horns, the B natural is just not quite the same sound/timbre as the Bb.John Morgan
The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 BaritoneAdams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
Year Round Except Summer:Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)Summer Only:
KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)
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Originally posted by John Morgan View Post...you go from a somewhat stuffier note to a more free blowing note. So the difference is in the sound/timbre of the notes, not the pitch (which is different).
Best example: Chuck Daellenbach at the going dow last notes of the Tuba Tiger Rag. Broad loud solo notes on 5v CC-Tuba:
F (one octave under the staff, 4+5) solid sound,
Eb (3+4+5) stuffy,
D (1+3+4+5) VERY stuffy
C (open) Booah! full sound!
Bb (1) see C!
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Yeah. Thanks, John -- I missed that.
I agree in general with this. For the most part, I prefer non-comp horns. But I have to say that I haven't had a better horn in terms of intonation than the Wessex Eb. On the other hand, what I'm playing now (in the privacy of my own home) is the old 1924 3-valver since I replaced the receiver. The Wessex is great in terms of tone, and intonation, and ease of play. But the Buescher (which on its best day was never a great tuba) is just more "alive".Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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Update: The horn sounding flat issue was addressed by shortening the main tune slide and thinning the mouthpiece schank so that it fits deeper into the receiver. In this way, in addition to putting the intonation back in place (A = 442), I reduced the GAP by 11.5 mm, bringing it to the size of 3.2 mm which, for me and on this horn (after various experiments ) turns out to be the optimal distance. If I remember correctly Dave too, in the video explaining the AGR adjustment on his Adams he had come to a similar measure of GAP adjustment.
Now I have to practice on the notes under the staff that are not yet obtainable automatically (I still have to memorize the various combinations with the 3 pistons operated by the left hand): I certainly don't lack time, having recovered from a serious injury (rupture of the tendon of the left leg quadriceps) which prevents me from walking. Between plaster and rehabilitation I will have it for at least 5/6 months.
Greetings to everyone.
Franz
Last edited by franz; 03-03-2022, 04:00 AM.2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.
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Originally posted by franz View PostUpdate: The horn sounding flat issue was addressed by shortening the main tune slide and thinning the mouthpiece schank so that it fits deeper into the receiver. In this way, in addition to putting the intonation back in place (A = 442), I reduced the GAP by 11.5 mm, bringing it to the size of 3.2 mm which, for me and on this horn (after various experiments ) turns out to be the optimal distance. If I remember correctly Dave too, in the video explaining the AGR adjustment on his Adams he had come to a similar measure of GAP adjustment.
Now I have to practice on the notes under the staff that are not yet obtainable automatically (I still have to memorize the various combinations with the 3 pistons operated by the left hand): I certainly don't lack time, having recovered from a serious injury (rupture of the tendon of the left leg quadriceps) which prevents me from walking. Between plaster and rehabilitation I will have it for at least 5/6 months.
Greetings to everyone.
FranzJohn Morgan
The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 BaritoneAdams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
Year Round Except Summer:Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)Summer Only:
KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)
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Originally posted by Snake Charmer View Post
With 3rd valve two tones you can reach a proper AA and you need for D only 36. And it is not difficult to get used to the fingering, I play all my C and Bb horns with long 3rd, only the Eb tuba and Eb alto I use with short 3rd. Half of my instruments have a long 3rd, so it was easier to pull the others out than changing everytime the fingering. And the sound for 23 with only one valve is better!
Saluti, Helmut2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.
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Originally posted by Snake Charmer View PostQuick changes E-Eb and A-Ab are comfortable with 12-125!2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.
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