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Thread: Wessex French C Tuba TC 236 P

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Charmer View Post
    I have a Thibouville-Lamy 4v Saxhorn in C/Bb, made in ca 1905.
    Just as a matter of curiosity, what is it pitched to (that is, A= ???)?
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (PT-63)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kellyberg
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  2. With a Kelly 51D mouthpiece I play it with A=438-440. It is OK to play with others, but not in my A=443 village band.

  3. #33
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    Dec 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    But isn't the intonation of the horn with the Bb extension pretty dreadful?
    No, on my French tuba the pitch with the Bb extension is absolutely consistent. The fact remains that the partial 5th sounds a bit flat, but this is easily remedied with lip correction or alternatives positions.
    Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone,4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves 1974, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

  4. #34
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    Interesting. I wonder if that's because the proportion of the cylindrical tubing to conical tubing in that horn is relatively high compared to most tubas. Acoustics (especially of conical tubes) is a bizarrely complex science.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (PT-63)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kellyberg
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  5. The effects of putting in cylindrical pieces of tubing into an instrument should be manageable. Otherwise every horn would bring you into trouble when pressing a valve.
    More effect has the number of used valves and the following more curves and bends = more resistance!
    (For that I love the 2 tone 3rd valve!) This is the reason why the French C Tuba is much more consistent in sound in the low register than a compensated horn. If properly played you can not hear a sound difference between Db (4+6) and a CC (0). Try this with BB and BBb on a compensator...

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Charmer View Post
    The effects of putting in cylindrical pieces of tubing into an instrument should be manageable.
    I don't get what you mean by this.

    Otherwise every horn would bring you into trouble when pressing a valve.
    You mean "pressing a single valve"? Every horn does bring you into trouble with any valve combination, just as a matter of physics and the "valve swindle".

    More effect has the number of used valves and the following more curves and bends = more resistance!
    (For that I love the 2 tone 3rd valve!) This is the reason why the French C Tuba is much more consistent in sound in the low register than a compensated horn.
    This makes sense. The compensated instrument is still a "compromise". But that compromise can be avoided by adding more valves -- essentially adding more "instruments", each of which is (hopefully) in tune with itself. It does seem to be generally true that the more valves or keys, the more one can achieve (or approximate) correct intonation. Thus it is almost possible to play a saxophone in tune. ( <= Saxophone joke)

    If properly played you can not hear a sound difference between Db (4+6) and a CC (0). Try this with BB and BBb on a compensator...
    I'm lost here. If "properly played", there is no difference in pitch between a Db and a C?
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (PT-63)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kellyberg
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  7. #37
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    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (previously)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    ...I'm lost here. If "properly played", there is no difference in pitch between a Db and a C?
    I think what Snake Charmer meant was when you play a compensating horn and go from a note using the compensating loops to a note down a half step that might be open or no compensating valves, you go from a somewhat stuffier note to a more free blowing note. So the difference is in the sound/timbre of the notes, not the pitch (which is different). Same phenomenon on the trombone with F attachment. Using the F attachment down low, the horn tends to get stuffier. Simply a result of more tubing and bends when you add the F plumbing.

    On a euphonium, go from using 2-4 for the low B natural (bass clef) to the open Bb, and on most horns, the B natural is just not quite the same sound/timbre as the Bb.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)

  8. Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    ...you go from a somewhat stuffier note to a more free blowing note. So the difference is in the sound/timbre of the notes, not the pitch (which is different).
    This is exactly what I wanted to say. On compensated horns it is impossible not to sound stuffy low down, but even on non-compensators you can hear the played register by sound.
    Best example: Chuck Daellenbach at the going dow last notes of the Tuba Tiger Rag. Broad loud solo notes on 5v CC-Tuba:
    F (one octave under the staff, 4+5) solid sound,
    Eb (3+4+5) stuffy,
    D (1+3+4+5) VERY stuffy
    C (open) Booah! full sound!
    Bb (1) see C!

  9. #39
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    Yeah. Thanks, John -- I missed that.

    I agree in general with this. For the most part, I prefer non-comp horns. But I have to say that I haven't had a better horn in terms of intonation than the Wessex Eb. On the other hand, what I'm playing now (in the privacy of my own home) is the old 1924 3-valver since I replaced the receiver. The Wessex is great in terms of tone, and intonation, and ease of play. But the Buescher (which on its best day was never a great tuba) is just more "alive".
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (PT-63)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kellyberg
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Varese,Italy
    Posts
    300
    Update: The horn sounding flat issue was addressed by shortening the main tune slide and thinning the mouthpiece schank so that it fits deeper into the receiver. In this way, in addition to putting the intonation back in place (A = 442), I reduced the GAP by 11.5 mm, bringing it to the size of 3.2 mm which, for me and on this horn (after various experiments ) turns out to be the optimal distance. If I remember correctly Dave too, in the video explaining the AGR adjustment on his Adams he had come to a similar measure of GAP adjustment.
    Now I have to practice on the notes under the staff that are not yet obtainable automatically (I still have to memorize the various combinations with the 3 pistons operated by the left hand): I certainly don't lack time, having recovered from a serious injury (rupture of the tendon of the left leg quadriceps) which prevents me from walking. Between plaster and rehabilitation I will have it for at least 5/6 months.
    Greetings to everyone.
    Franz
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    Last edited by franz; 03-03-2022 at 05:00 AM.
    Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone,4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves 1974, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

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