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Thread: Sixth partial ( part one)

  1. #1
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    Sixth partial ( part one)

    Hi everyone, I make some personal considerations on the sharp sixth partial in brass instruments in general and on euphoniums in particular. As far I know, the harmonic partials of brass instruments have a definite behavior with respect to the equal temperament: 1st, 2nd, 4th and 8th are in tune, 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th plays lower slightly sharp, 5th and 10th raise lightly flat, and 7th and 11th plays very flat, normally unusable. Now, based on my experience which dates 56 years of practice playing brass instruments, but in total does not reach the ten among the various euphoniums, tenors, baritones and trombones, I noticed that the sixth partial was always very sharp in all instruments that I have played ( on some more than others and not on all positions, even on the trombone, which clearly matches perfectly with the coulisse, if it is held in position without moving it between the various partials, the sixth plays sharp.) Now, coming to the point, my latest addition, a 1973 Besson New Standard with three compensated valves, is perfectly in tune on all notes except the sixth partial which is very high. My 2007 2052 Prestige is also high on the sixths, but not as well as the new standard and can be easily managed with the trigger, but also with the lips or alternative positions. For the alternative positions it is necessary to distinguish between the instruments with three and four compensated valves; in those with four the alternative positions for the sixth partial are identical to those for the uncompensated instruments: the combination 1-3 can be used for F 5th staff which, being a 7th partial should give a very flat note but, having a combination of length of the tubes of the bore shorter than necessary, the result i a perfectly note in tune. The same reasoning applies to the G above the staff, obtainable with 1-2 (7th partial). The F# i generally acceptable with the correct position (2), or even 2-4 (8th partial), while 2-3 (7th partial) is very flat. With the New Standard ( 3 compensated valves), however, a problem arises: while for G above the staff, which played without operating any valves (6th partial) is 40 cent sharp, while if obtained with 1-2, having 1-2 a length of the tubes less than necessary, the G is tuned. The F# can be obtained with 1-2-3, normally very sharp in no compensated instruments (8th partial) but with the addition of the pipe portions of the compensation circuit, it is in tune.
    Last edited by franz; 09-19-2021 at 01:16 PM.
    Besson Prestige 2052,3D K&G mouthpiece;JP373 baritone,T4C K&G mouthpiece;Bach 42GO trombone,T4C K&G mouthpiece

  2. #2
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    Part two
    The problem arises, however, with the F, which cannot be played with 1-3 ( 7th partial) because with the compensation circuit the note is very flat, so the only solution is to try to lower it, as much as possible with chops, taking into account the fact that, playing in an ensemble, my other brass friends will still play that note high, If anyone has to give me some suggestions or correct something inaccurate that I have written do not hesitate to do so.
    Thanks for the attention, best regards.
    Besson Prestige 2052,3D K&G mouthpiece;JP373 baritone,T4C K&G mouthpiece;Bach 42GO trombone,T4C K&G mouthpiece

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by franz View Post
    Part two
    The problem arises, however, with the F, which cannot be played with 1-3 ( 7th partial) because with the compensation circuit the note is very flat, so the only solution is to try to lower it, as much as possible with chops, taking into account the fact that, playing in an ensemble, my other brass friends will still play that note high, If anyone has to give me some suggestions or correct something inaccurate that I have written do not hesitate to do so.
    Thanks for the attention, best regards.
    Sounds like you're reading treble clef, so I'll refer to treble clef notes in this message.

    Have you considered using 4th valve for the sixth-partial G? Then use 2-4 for F# and 1-4 for F. It may be more in tune while requiring less embouchure adjustment.
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1, Kadja, and DE 101XTG9 mouthpieces
    Bach 36B trombone; pBone; Vincent Bach (from 1971) 6.5AL mouthpiece
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post
    Sounds like you're reading treble clef, so I'll refer to treble clef notes in this message.

    Have you considered using 4th valve for the sixth-partial G? Then use 2-4 for F# and 1-4 for F. It may be more in tune while requiring less embouchure adjustment.
    The New Standard has only 3 valves!
    Besson Prestige 2052,3D K&G mouthpiece;JP373 baritone,T4C K&G mouthpiece;Bach 42GO trombone,T4C K&G mouthpiece

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NYC metro area
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    Quote Originally Posted by franz View Post
    The New Standard has only 3 valves!
    Whoa! Sorry, I didn't know that.
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1, Kadja, and DE 101XTG9 mouthpieces
    Bach 36B trombone; pBone; Vincent Bach (from 1971) 6.5AL mouthpiece
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

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