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Thread: Compensating Slide Moisture on FRONT-Valve Horns

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    US East coast
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    152
    I’ve always appreciated the 4th “water key” Guidocorona.

    Are there still to be 4 water keys on the newest version of the Festivo? I think I recall reading somewhere that there might be a change.

    Has there been any indication of when the next Festivo will become available here in the states?

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Summerville (SC)
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    365
    Hello friends, thank you for your quick responses since yesterday. Here are some answers back to you:

    To Dave…. Yes, fuzziness morphing into subtle spluttering gradually develops when using compensation on 1, optionally in conjunction with 2 and/or 3….. Typically I need to dump water from the comp loop on 1st valve after some 30 minutes of practice. Moisture does also accumulates on slides equipped with water keys, but these sporting larger diameter loops, are less prone to rapid-onset audible misbehavior.

    One note of interest… I live in the Low Country of SC, where humidity is unusually high, even inside my home.

    To Hyperbolica… Does your Festivo feature a down-pointing 1st valve comp loop? is it removable? Does it perhaps feature a water key?

    To Ann Reed… My Festivo is just over three years old. I am not sure if it reflects current design. My unit sports water keys on valves 3, 4, main slide, and the small maccherone-like elbow above 4th slide. Conversely, the down-pointing 1st valve comp loop, and all up-pointing slides, such as 1 and 2, as well as the comp loop on 3, do not feature water keys.

    I did not know that a new version of Festivo might be in the works. I will contact Wessex and try to find out about probable changes and projected availability timeframe.

    Regards, Guido
    Last edited by guidocorona; 09-03-2021 at 10:27 AM.
    Miraphone M5050L
    Wessex EP104 Festivo (available)
    DT16, DC3, DC4, SM4U, 4AL, 51D

  3. Quote Originally Posted by guidocorona View Post
    Hello friends, thank you for your quick responses since yesterday. Here are some answers back to you:
    To Hyperbolica… Does your Festivo feature a down-pointing 1st valve comp loop? is it removable? Does it perhaps feature a water key?

    ....Regards, Guido
    Well, yes, it does have a loop that hangs down, and it is removable. And yes, it did have some water in it. I didn't notice it gurgling, though. I think this loop had been stuck until I had it worked on recently. The slides on these Wessex are not always great.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Summerville (SC)
    Posts
    365
    Thank you Hyperbolica…. I admit that the term "gurgling" is refers to a, well... boundary case.

    As I explain, as water accumulates during practice, a gradual disturbance of the purity of the tone is introduced, until it becomes a recognizable faint splutter.... And if I do not intervene and dump the loop after some 30 to 40 minutes, it would eventually produce something that progressively resembles a gurgle. I got to this extreme case only in my early euphoniumizing days, before I learned what to do.

    How frequently do you Hyperbolica dump water from the 1st valve comp loop?

    Regards, G.
    Last edited by guidocorona; 09-03-2021 at 05:42 PM.
    Miraphone M5050L
    Wessex EP104 Festivo (available)
    DT16, DC3, DC4, SM4U, 4AL, 51D

  5. I'm not consistent about emptying water. I do it infrequently enough to let the slide freeze. If I can get by without it that's what I do. I've done it just a few times since I've owned it, usually looking for water somewhere. I'm probably not a good example of a euphonium player, I'm sure I do everything wrong. I'm just a slide player who fiddles with valves.

  6. #16
    It might work to tip the horn forward in a way that has that compensating slide pointing level or downward, then blow air through with 14 pushed. The water should find its way to the main tuning slide.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
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  7. Maybe I should also mention that when I do take out the 1st valve comp loop, it comes out with a jerk and hits the 3rd valve circuit.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Summerville (SC)
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    365
    Hi Hyperbolica, the insertion tolerance of the 1st comp loop on the Wessex Festivo is intentionally somewhat stiff, as the loop’s socks are very short, and a more lax insertion might cause the loop to fall out on its own.

    In early days, I did experienced the loop clanging onto the 3rd slide assembly upon release…. So I developed a method that avoids the problem entirely.

    • I hold Festivo bell up, more/less parallel to body, valve buttons facing out.
    • * Insert a soft absorbent cloth through the opening space above the braces of the main slide and 3rd valve slide….. This is meant to cushion any accidental metal-to-metal impact.
    • Hold the 1st comp loop as follows with my left hand:
    • * Ring finger through the loop’s pull-ring;
    • * Brace with index and middle finger on outer side, and thumb on inner side of loop.
    • * Jiggle back/forth very gently, and pull ever-gently the loop down until it disengages.

    My hand-grip typically prevents the loop from tapping the metal, and any slight mishap will be dampened by the cloth.
    The cloth also absorbs any water falling out of the open tubeing above.

    I then:

    • Turn the loop upside down and tap it on the cloth to empty most of the condensation.
    • * I push Residual water out of the tube by blowing straight into the loop from both sides…. Yes, this might get mist on my face.
    • Press valves 1 and 4, and then blow hard….. Some Water will be expelled downwards from the open 1st valve assembly.
    • Reinsert the comp loop…. I use slight jiggling motion to aid the operation, until the loop is firmly in place.

    I found that applying on occasion a tiny amount of Corning Silicon Vacuum Grease smooth release and insertion ops.

    Note: The pull-ring on the loop is not exactly at the bottom, but slightly to one side…. I always insure that when the loop is in place, the pull-ring points slightly opposite the valve buttons, that is slightly towards me…. This position facilitates smooth removal and insertions.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards, Guido
    Last edited by guidocorona; 09-04-2021 at 10:52 AM.
    Miraphone M5050L
    Wessex EP104 Festivo (available)
    DT16, DC3, DC4, SM4U, 4AL, 51D

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,080
    If you're having such annoying experience with this, why not just add a water key where necessary? I added Amado water keys to the 1st and 3rd tuning slides of my 1924 Eb tuba because I got tired of pulling them so frequently (I think it would make an excellent condenser for a distillery). They were easy to add, are out of the way, and work well. Adding a more conventional water key would not be substantially more difficult. Any tech should be able to do it in about 20 minutes.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (PT-63)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kellyberg
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Summerville (SC)
    Posts
    365
    Hi Gary, and thank you for the excellent suggestion....

    For me at least,, periodically dumping Festivo's 1st comp loop is a minor inconvenience rather than a bothersome chore.

    But I recognize that a water key -- particularly of the Amado variant, given the small curvature radius of the 1st comp loop -- would be a fine ergonomic touch. I am concerned that Installation by a tech might be a little elaborate, because it would also involve the de-soddering of the widish base of the pull-ring currently mounted on it, and then relacquering of the affected part of the loop at end of job.

    On the other hand, it would be very easy for the Wessex factory to modify this loop with the addition of a water key, and perhaps include such enhancement on future versions of Festivo….. I'll suggest it to James Garney as soon as I manage to make contact with him.

    Regards, Guido
    Miraphone M5050L
    Wessex EP104 Festivo (available)
    DT16, DC3, DC4, SM4U, 4AL, 51D

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