Guidance/Opinions on giving a baritone a try?

[ann reid]

Ever since wearing out my original plastic euphonium/baritone, I’ve searched for an instrument that I could play comfortably with my set of aging arms and fingers.

So far the instruments that have worked best for me have been a Wessex Duplex and my cherished Conn 24i.

As I was looking over some music examples recently, the thought occurred to me that when I began playing I had for some reason I can’t remember, gone directly from plastic to a Wessex Festivo, and never gave a true baritone a try. After listening to some YouTube soloists, I find the sound of the baritone appealing, and the weight might be better for me ergonomically.

I’d be interested in any thoughts euphonium/baritone doublers might have about the ergonomics of the 2 horns, and also whether I should attempt to rent a 3 valve or 4 valve baritone and also compensated or uncompensated for a trial.

Also possibly thoughts on favored brands and models of baritones.

Looking forward to your ideas.

[Richard III]

My foray into baritone happened because a local brass band needed "a true English baritone." I started looking. I remembered Bente Illevold plays an Eastman 311 which is termed a student model. Looking around, these are often rented. I decided if it is good enough for her, it was good enough for me. Three valves. Non comp. I found one for around $500. Very good condition. Since I got it, I just love playing it. Light and very easy to play with a very pleasing sound. Intonation isn't perfect but manageable.

[Rodgeman]

Where are you located?

I just saw a Baltimore Brass post on facebook with a few baritones in the background.

They have a Conn 24i listed: https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.co...baritones.aspx

[bbocaner]

I find baritone to be quite a bit more difficult to play than euphonium. The idea about the baritone sound is it's a different vowel sound than euphonium. Whereas euphonium is a big OHHH baritone is more of an AHH or IHH timbre. What makes it difficult is that it's just so much more direct. Euphonium tends to kind of even out any embouchure issues you're having. The level of resistance makes it easy to make attacks and slurs. Baritone, you're much more hanging out there on your own.

I would absolutely do 3-valve compensating. 4-valve instruments are nice for borrowing euphonium literature to play, but they really just don't resonate and project the way 3-valve instruments do. I used to be a proponent of the 4-valve instrument but I've seen the light. That extra weight and bracing just ruins the instrument. And non-compensating 3-valve instruments have intonation issues and are really just student instruments, unless it also has a tuning trigger. There's a guy that has a courtois for sale here on the forum that looks like a good deal.

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...422#post158422

[guidocorona]

The Wessex BR140 3-valve compensated baritone in gold lacquer is very reasonably priced at $850. See:

https://us.wessex-tubas.com/collecti...nt=42508779725

Sorry, I have not tested BR140.... But if my Wessex Festivo+DC4 were any indication of potential, the pairing with an Alliance DC5 mouthpiece for baritone might make this little bari quite a delish little horn. DC5 shows as out of stock at Dillon Music.... But a little while ago Matt Walters at Dillon had indicated that he had located a DC5 for baritone hidden away that they could sell with a discount.

Regards, Guido

[bbocaner]

I like the BR140 a lot! A couple of minor intonation issues, but no worse than the besson, which is the benchmark.

I do not like the alliance baritone mouthpieces. Too deep -- baritone mouthpieces for euphonium players. Can't beat a plain Wick 6BS

[joshealejo]

I find baritone to be quite a bit more difficult to play than euphonium. The idea about the baritone sound is it's a different vowel sound than euphonium. Whereas euphonium is a big OHHH baritone is more of an AHH or IHH timbre. What makes it difficult is that it's just so much more direct. Euphonium tends to kind of even out any embouchure issues you're having. The level of resistance makes it easy to make attacks and slurs. Baritone, you're much more hanging out there on your own.

I would absolutely do 3-valve compensating. 4-valve instruments are nice for borrowing euphonium literature to play, but they really just don't resonate and project the way 3-valve instruments do. I used to be a proponent of the 4-valve instrument but I've seen the light. That extra weight and bracing just ruins the instrument. And non-compensating 3-valve instruments have intonation issues and are really just student instruments, unless it also has a tuning trigger. There's a guy that has a courtois for sale here on the forum that looks like a good deal.

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...422#post158422

Thank you for the kind recommendation, Barry!

Kindly,
Jose

[Sara Hood]

BR140 Baritones are great!

I will second this motion. You know that you at least "like" and can trust the Wessex brand of instruments, as evidenced by your experience with their euphoniums. Stick with that (smile).

Personally, I have the JinBao JBBR1240, a sister horn to the Wessex BR140. It is built in the same factory in China and is the horn Wessex improved on to make theirs. They are clones/stencils. It is available from a few different retailers on Ebay for $600 to $900 USD. I had no trouble getting mine, even though it literally had to be shipped from China. One suggestion I would make is to tell you to get the silver finish or the traditional lacquered brass. I got the nickel silver finish and it has not stayed as pretty/shiny as I would like. No issues with the horn itself, just a bit of cosmetic appeal. That may add to the bottom line, but will be worth it in my opinion. There are one or two other forum members with this particular horn (the JBBR1240).

I also second the motion that whichever brand and model you go with, be sure to get a three valve compensator. They are a superior instrument. I would agree that uncompensated horns are more of a student model. After all, your euph is compensated, why not make it a "family"?

- Sara

[guidocorona]

I just checked the BR140 page on the Wessex web site. The gold lacquer version of BR140 is currently out of stock. Conversely, there is 1 unit available in Silver Plate, priced at $985.

Regards, Guido

[Richard III]

If you are still looking for a baritone, I'm selling my Eastman. I decided that driving 1.5 hours each way for a band practice was going to be too much. Here's Bente Illevold playing hers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW1U8DRTBG0

And here's my ad on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224590140910

[Snorlax]

Ann...
The big question remains unasked, hence unanswered:
In what kind of ensemble are you playing?
If you are in a brass band, a baritone will be ok on a baritone part, not on a euphonium part
If you are in a wind ensemble, a British baritone will be out of place tonally.
If you're just playing at home, enjoy anything you want!
ALSO: If you successfully and comfortably negotiated a Wessex Duplex, a heavy and bulky horn for sure, a baritone will be feather-light!! So I guess I'm not sure why you would want a baritone if you were able to negotiate a Duplex.
Jim

[ann reid]

I play in a darn decent sounding community band, and my end goal since beginning low brass is to audition for a really good selected wind ensemble, at college level if possible. I’m not at all satisfied playing for myself alone. I’ve always been into wind ensemble, especially everything written before 1970 or so.

If I had access to a group that played music written for both euphonium AND baritone, I’d probably be happy doing either, based on the assumption that music using both tone colors would be reasonably challenging. I like to push myself.

The Wessex Duplex sits straight on my lap, so almost no stress with holding it. My Conn Connstellation balances equally as comfortably. Nothing else I’ve tried is even remotely pain free.

The Conn is also the tone that stays in my memory from five or so decades ago when I was playing the most. I’ve never played in an ensemble in which matching tone was a topic or concern, and I find the concept interesting, but whatever I played was apparently usually OK, since it never came up.

I can imagine that issue as kind of a “brass” thing, but I will say that as a woodwind specialist all that time, the raspyrazzy sounds used by low woodwinds now actually are not my idea of “good” tone.

Summing up, I just want to find something I can play for an hour or two every day without pain. I consider it my job to make it sound right.

[Sara Hood]

Summing up, I just want to find something I can play for an hour or two every day without pain. I consider it my job to make it sound right.

And with that outlook, you may be able to make the baritone work regardless of the type of ensemble you are in. Just ask the folks sitting near you, the person who assigns the parts, and the conductor, if your sound/tone is matching what they want to hear. If they are good with it, then feel free to disregard the conventional wisdom of what kind of horn belongs in what kind of ensemble. Play for good sound and for joy (smile)! The rest is gravy.

- Sara


PS - Look for musical material published by the Salvation Army. We use both the euphonium and the baritone in our groups, so both parts will be there. But then, TSA is patterned after British Brass Band, because that is its roots.