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Thread: Piston Weight Comparisons

  1. #1

    Piston Weight Comparisons

    OK, time to start a new obsession! Valves will feel better if they get lighter in weight, all else being equal. So I decided to measure the pistons on my Adams and on the Sinfonico. In my review of the latter I mentioned they had shortened the "overhang" at the bottom. That was incorrect when I compared the directly today - they are the same length as my Adams. BTW, that idea was stuck in my head from years ago when Glenn Call had his Boosey pistons modified. They put a good size chamfer on the top and bottom, and they shorted the bottom overhang to reduce weight and surface area (friction). They did indeed feel remarkable!

    Anyway, here are the measurements I made today, when I learned my Adams piston is lighter than the Wessex (using the 1st valve of both horns). It's less than 10% difference, so I don't know how important it is, but any reduction is good in theory.

    Anyone else want to jump in with measurements?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is what I am measuring:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    To make it clear:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by davewerden; 08-20-2021 at 12:57 PM.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  2. I have 3:

    Festivo, 114g without caps - 90
    King 2280, 121g without caps - 92
    Conn 24i, 70g without caps - 56

    Only the first one is compensating, and the Conn is significantly smaller in bore

    edited to reflect weights without caps
    Last edited by hyperbolica; 08-20-2021 at 03:41 PM. Reason: edited to reflect weights without caps

  3. #3
    Did you remove the stem?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by carbogast View Post
    Did you remove the stem?
    Good question! I trimmed the photos above so the measurement was clearer, but forgot that it left out important information. See the new photo in the original post.

    I leave all the parts that have to move, so the piston, stem, and finger button. I took off the valve cap because it is solid to the horn and does not move with the piston.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Varese,Italy
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Besson Prestige, 84 gr.
    Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone,4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves 1974, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by franz View Post

    Besson Prestige, 84 gr.
    So your weighs less than mine. Must be because it was standing up on the scale
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  7. Sterling Bauerfeind and Adams Top Sprung

    Sterling Bauerfeind Valve - 94 grams

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Adams Top Sprung Valve - 88 grams

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Note that my Sterling valve is quite a bit older than David's Adams valve, though they are both Bauerfeind. Also, the top sprung valve includes the total spring weight, though only a portion of the spring (the top part) is unsprung weight.
    Last edited by daruby; 08-20-2021 at 07:55 PM.
    Sterling Virtuoso 1065HGS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HGS baritone
    New England Brass Band
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  8. #8
    Sterling Bauerfeind Valve - 95 grams

  9. #9
    I'll start making a chart in a bit. NOTE: I'm going to take off 1 gram from my measurements. I forgot that I had weighed the paper towel square I had on the platform at 1 gram before I started.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    New post, with chart, is here:

    http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...t-Valve-Weight
    Last edited by davewerden; 08-21-2021 at 11:57 AM.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC4)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  10. Boosey and Hawkes Class A New standard prototype 1924 70g
    Besson Imperial 1980s 70g
    Wessex Sinfonico 2021 103g


    Does stainless steel weigh more per metre than Solbron?

    Do heavy valves help sound projection/tone wise?

    Or are they simply a consequence of larger bore instruments?

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